Evidence Builds for DeLorenzo's Lincoln

October 16, 2002 | Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

[WhiskeyPapa]

They were Soviets. They were puppets, if they weren't buried in Katyin forest.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Thanks. Mom will get a kick out of this pic. But I was just a little tiny baby in 1984.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

They were Soviets. They were puppets, if they weren't buried in Katyin forest.

Correction: They WEREN"T Soviets.

Walt

[x]

What gives?

Just trying to fit in with the theme of the day and stay relevant.

As I recall, I don't think you demonstrated any real "embrace" by Marx of Lincoln's "agenda," unless by "agenda" you mean the end of chattel slavery, something that many others would also support.

[Non-Sequitur]

i.e. of starvation, intentional denial of medical care, denial of housing, of wounds & of disease

The more you talkt the more is sounds like Andersonville.

[GOPcapitalist]

As I recall, I don't think you demonstrated any real "embrace" by Marx of Lincoln's "agenda,"

Sure I did. Just take a look at any of Marx's many essays in support of the Northern cause during the war.

[x]

There's a tendency today to think of the Confederates as victims or as people like you and me. But Confederate elites, like all elites and more than some, were interested in power for themselves. They saw slavery as the basis of their civization, or of all civilization. They were convinced that slavery was threatened and that slave territory ought to be expanded. Indeed, many thought that slavery would die if it were geographically confined. Some dreamed of an American slaveholding empire stretching to include Mexico, Central America, or the Caribbean islands. And they had an exaggerated idea of the Western world's hunger for cotton and the power that it would give them. I don't think it's out of place to call them "extremists" or "radicals."

Of course there were others who went along because of fears or regional and familial loyalties. And the radicals failed in the Upper South before Sumter. It was chiefly the fact that war was already beginning that drew VA, TN, NC and AR into the rebellion and Confederacy. But ignoring the radical element among the secessionists creates a distorted picture. What many find objectionable about confederate apologists is the exaggerated contrast between the evil, power-hungry Union and the poor, dutiful, victimized Confederates. An admission that there were power-hungry and aggressive secessionists and Confederates would go some way to providing a fuller understanding of that time.

[GOPcapitalist]

But I was just a little tiny baby in 1984.

So that would put you in...what...high school about right now? Figures.

[TexConfederate1861]

Oh do us ALL a favor...expell us PLEASE!

[TexConfederate1861]

I think you know very well what context I meant, or you are more stupid than I thought....


Yep....they thought Ben Franklin was nutty too....

You just can't STAND the fact that it JUST MAY HAPPEN....

[TexConfederate1861]

That is a LOW blow...even for you nonny....

Clinton may be Southern born, but we all know where his heart is....in New York!

[TexConfederate1861]

Free Dixie...a possibility....your *ss? NOT LIKELY!

[TexConfederate1861]

Wirz was innocent you ignoramus.....even leading Northerners knew he was being framed...



Jeeez....

[Aurelius]

"Nationalism and socialism are opposites."

"This is SO funny!!!

And you are so confused and ignorant. What is "opposite" about Nationalism and Socialism? Can you spell "Nazionalsocialismus"? Probably not., but even you can probably spell the familiar shortened version "Nazi".

[error99]

"...for 100 years after slavery, a black man couldn't vote, walk down the street or get a damn drink of water unless he first had permission of one of your "countrymen..."

If you think those days existed only in the south; you are mistaken.

[Aurelius]

"Actually, the goal of socialism is to place the means of production in the hands of the people. The Nazi's sought to achieve this through the concept of the German Volk by means of German nationalism. Nazi political theory holds that the German people are the state by means of a duty and composition of that state called the Volksgemeinschaft."
GOPCapitalist

And Hitler summarized this notion, together with his desire to unify the German speaking people, in the phrase "Ein Volk" - echoing Abraham Lincoln's shibboleth "one people", used 100 years before to further similar fascist goals.

[Aurelius]

Just stick with us Papa, we will educate you in spite of yourself.

[andy_card]

Wirz was innocent you ignoramus.....even leading Northerners knew he was being framed...

Him and OJ.

[andy_card]

I think you know very well what context I meant, or you are more stupid than I thought....

Insult me some more and you just might win me over to your side, numbnut. You compared the United States of America to Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, comparisons I found to be in the poorest possible taste. If you think differently, you may just be on the wrong political forum.

Yep....they thought Ben Franklin was nutty too....

And Ben Franklin would have had nothing to do with your quixotic little crusade.

You just can't STAND the fact that it JUST MAY HAPPEN....

What, the destruction of my country? Of course I'd do everything in my power to prevent such a thing from happening. Unlike you, I'm a patriot.

[andy_card]

What is "opposite" about Nationalism and Socialism?

Nationalism and Socialism are two philosophies at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. Hitler was able to attract both ex-communist workers and their industrialist bosses, by playing both sides off against each other. Hitler's Nationalism emphasized supreme loyalty to the nation and the race, what we'd call patriotism, and the errosion to that effect of personal liberties. At the same time, he appealed to the Left by promising full employment and a redistribution of wealth. The Leftist side of the equation was more or less dropped after the 1934 Night of the Long Knives, by which time he had destroyed the Left and now needed to attract the full support of the middle classes. Certainly by the start of the Second World War, Hitler's Nazism was all Nationalism and no Socialism.