Vanity: Destructive Dogs

Self | 9/13/02 | Enough_Deceit

[Enough_Deceit]

I know that several of you fellow FReepers are animal enthusiasts. Since FReepers are some of the most intelligent people on the planet, I have come to you for advise.

About six months ago, we adopted our dog, Nellie, who is an Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix. We adopted her from the pound. She had been their for a month and they were going to put her down the next morning. (I know, I am a pushover.)

We love her very much. We adopted another dog from the pound for her to play with, as we humans don't always play as dogs do. Nellie is the alpha dog, and Daisy is the less dominant one. (Daisy is also Aussie/Border Collie.)

Nellie is a very active dog, and since her breed is a herding one, it is very common for them to nip at peoples' heels when they run. However, she likes to give doggie kisses which eventually turn into play nips. That behavior is my first concern.

These dogs are in and out of the house. I went out yesterday morning to find Nellie chewing on the siding of the house! We reprimanded her, sprayed some sour apple stuff on the area and thought that was the end of it. It is not like these dogs don't have chew things. I've gone to the butcher and have gotten bones for them and they have toys. Last night, we caught her chewing the same area of the house.

I have enrolled Nellie in obedience training that begins in a few weeks. Does anybody have any ideas that could help out? We refuse to let these dogs literally tear our house apart. If the obedience training doesn't work, we will have to find new homes for them. I don't want to do this, so I am hoping that a fellow FReeper may have some ideas as how to solve these dog problems. BTW, Nellie and Daisy are 2 and 1.5 years respectively.

Thanks for your help.

[AppyPappy]

B-O-R-E-D

[freeeee]

First, thank you for saving pound dogs.

she likes to give doggie kisses which eventually turn into play nips

When they do that, grab their 'lips' and push them onto their own teeth, causing them to bite themselves. Reinforce this with a stern "NO!" You have to do this right when they nip, so they associate the behavior. This is negative reinforcement.

When they only lick you and don't nip, praise them. Positive reinforcement.

I'm still thinking about what to do about them chewing your house.

[general_re]

Two good answers right off the bat. They are, like you said, active dogs, and they'll need lots of activity to keep them engaged, or they'll get bored. And, you'll need to be very firm and swift with behavior that isn't acceptable, like the nipping and chewing.

Nail 'em when they misbehave, keep them busy with positive activities, and over time you should be able to curb the problem. It may take some time, though, and it definitely requires committment on your part.

[joesnuffy]

These dogs are smart and need to be challanged daily...excercise essential...lots of running..they are trotters ...so a long bike ride wouldnt hurt them a bit..they do well in obstacle type courses..kind of like smart kids in school stuck in slow classes....they get into mischief if not challanged..

[ldakers]

Border Collies and Aussies are very intelligent dogs that need to have nearly constant attention. They're very loving and very friendly dogs, but they were bred to work. If they are left to their own devices, they'll figure out something to do - like chew on the siding. We've got an aussie mix ourselves, and he's the same way. Obedience training will help some, but it won't resolve the problem - they're bored. If you're not able to be with them all the time, you should consider activities that will attract their attention periodically. There are toys that will make noise or release a treat on a scheduled or random basis. That might be enough to distract them from their destructive behavior.

As for the nipping, just make sure that you stop playing at the very moment that the nips start. If you allow the nipping to continue, the dog will believe it is an acceptable behavior. Obedience training will make a difference in ensuring you are consistent in your corrections to the dog. Obedience training is really more for you and your family than the dogs. Remember to always treat bad behavior with negative consequences - not getting a treat, a sharp "NO", or not getting to continue playing.

As for toys, the bones are good, other chew toys are good. What we do with ours is get the Kong rubber toys (virtually indestructible) and fill them with a mixture of kibble and peanut butter or kibble and cream cheese and freeze them. This frozen treat keeps them occupied for a good hour or so. Just watch that you adjust their food intake to account for the extra calories!

Best of luck to you. It can be a challenge with dogs, but if you are consistent and you keep them from getting bored, you will have loving companions!

[Cachelot]

B-O-R-E-D

Exactly :). Both AS and Border are working dogs who need to be set to work. A little playtime in the yard is not enough. One solution is to join a club where you actually get to work the dog, competition style, and keep working with it. Depending on where you are, winter can be h*llish for a border if it gets nothing much to do. It wants to herd critters. If it doesn't get sheep, it'll try herding kids, other dogs, and often (with bad consequences), cars. It also very much wants tasks :).

Another solution is to find it another (good) home, with a farmer who actually will use it in real work.

If one of these dogs get too little to do, it will eventually turn destructive and sometimes even aggressive. Not a good idea for a pure companion dog.

[THEUPMAN]

how to solve these dog problems
wack em with a stick .... it'll make em tender

[ru4liberty]

First, thank you for saving pound dogs.

AMEN!

Here's my little adoptee.

[Geezerette]

I read the replies to this thread, and you are so right about FReepers coming up with solutions!!

I don't have any helpful info, I have a lapdog Pomeranian, so will just give this thread a big bump to the top for more dog people to read and contribute to!

g

[blackdog]

I raise Border Collies and train them for sheep handling. Our best dog "Daisy" is much of what you describe. A Border Collie is a high energy dog. A farm of endless activity and chores is what makes our Daisy tolerable. Daisy is worthless as a companion pet. They live solely for the purpose of managing livestock. Affection shown to you should be considered a fringe benefit. It actually interferes with their performance as working dogs. For your siding issue, I suspect you may have mice in the wall. She is desperately trying to find something to do. A Border Collie with nothing to do is like a monkey with a machine gun.

[Temple Drake]

Read "The Other End of the Leash", by a woman who has a bunch of border collies that she uses to herd sheep. (Borrow it from the library -- she is a little "Pet Psychic"-ish about her relationship with the dogs , one of whom is apparently her substitute husband, at least in her mind).
Anyway, having had a border collie I can affirm what the others have said -- they are like gifted kids sitting in special-ed if they do not have enough to do. Sheep are not a real option for everybody; agility training however is a possiblity -- there are many websites showing how to set up agility events for your dog in your own yard.
Failing those options, it might be wise to keep the dog(s) with you all day -- that way they feel they are helping you work. My b.c. used to follow me from room to room. She was happiest when she got our family of 6 all into the same room; she would then station herself in the doorway facing away from us, apparently believing she was guarding her "flock" from predators!

[Tallguy]

Great comments from your fellow Freepers! You might want to put your question to a professional behaviorist:

http://www.greatpets.com

They might have a few things to add, but the comments so far will put you on the right track.

[blackdog]

Sorry, I needed to answer your question....

#1)Acquire a property of no less than 20 acres.

#2) Maintain a flock of sheep, ducks, or goats.

#3)Your dog must live in the barn, eat when livestock eats, move them from barn to pasture and pasture to barn, be allowed to pace endlessly from one gate to the next gate waiting for the next thing to do with her animals.

That should do it!

[freeeee]

What a cutie!

[e_castillo]

Our dogs liked to chew wood so we let them play with logs. Some of the logs are large and they have several smaller logs that are their favorites.

[hunyb]

my brother in law and his wife had an aussie (Jake, beautiful dog!!) they also had a yellow lab who seemed to be too 'airheaded' for Jake to play with (he simply ignored her), well, they ended up having a daughter and about 4 years ago (their daughter was 6 at the time), Jake was found under her bed and would not come out, so BIL reached under to get him and he nipped at him (not bit, nipped), well, that set him off and he sent the dog to the vet to get put down. Now, I don't know who their vet was, but I think it was a STUPID thing of him to do, all the poor dog needed was some space to run around in and some attention (they would leave him out in the yard all day with the other dog). I was so angry with them for doing this, all they had to do was call me and i would find a good home for him........Long story, but point is, PLAY with your dog as much as humanly possible, Aussie's are very active and need 'distraction' constantly!!!

[MJemison]

Get them a cow. They need to herd.

[blackdog]

Thank you for following the required naming ettiquitte for Border Collies. Always a Brit/Wales/Ireland/Scot name. ie; Kate, Maggie, Daisy, Meg, Molly, Carl, Charlie, Percy, Arthur,etc... Nothing worse than a Border Collie with the name, Vinny, Tony, Milo, Gustave, Olga, Ingrid, etc...

[goodnesswins]

THANKS for this thread, even though I have nothing to offer about Aussie dogs.......I now know the dog we will choose from the VET will NOT have any of the Aussie breed in him/her....(We're looking to choose a pound dog any time now.) THIS has been helpful. I thought we would be able to handle almost any dog from Lab size down (we're active)....but now I know better!