Replies

Hair, you know I was feeling like I was causing some of the Posters to drop off, so I tried not to post. I was really disappointed that the last couple chapters, esp. The White Rider didn't get more coverage. I don't what to say about starting it up again???? What about the rest of you?

Hey, Gretchen, what's your name on the B&N site? I am "Lin". But, I haven't posted too much. I am a bit nutty reading all the Comments that attribute LotR to JRRT's having been in the war. I believe that I'd read he had begun constructing Middleearth long before he served in the war-- and languages, they jumped on his distaste for French; and thought perhaps he thought of that as a language of Black Speach, but never saw that Elven might just be his acknowledgement of a 'heavenly' language; and that like any spirit-filled Christian would have the ability to speak in 'other' tongues - -

Eh! too early

Off Topic Did any of you see Dateline last night? Do you know that our Special Forces in Afghanistan had grown beards and whatnot so they could 'blend' in- some of the men there working for 'relief' groups got upset (they too have facial hair) because Afghans couldn't distinguish between them (relief workers) and the special forces. So, the military has ordered the Special Forces to shave their facial hair. Now I ask you, is that crazy?! The SFs NEED to blend in- what in the world has happeded to commonsense? not to mention, how difficult is it for guys out in the desert to shave! I just can't believe that the military brass would cave to relief workers like that. They want to wear facial hair so they don't get shot, but they want the military to shave so they won't be mistaken for military - of course this leaves our guys sticking out like sore thumbs.

Sorry, I just can't get over how ridiculous things have gotten.

Okay, here's an example of what's going on over at B&N-
the subject: Religion in LotR

Georgia
It seems to me that by creating a world in which religion is unnecessary because the spirituality of the people is a natural part of life (as seen in the Elves), Tolkien was making a very powerful point. All of the races have a definitive way of living and of keeping their culture alive. You can see in the relationship of Frodo and Sam, for example, that Hobbits have friendships built on spiritual foundations and not social ones, as socially Sam is not compatible with Frodo.

Shirley
I would agree with that Amy. Don't think he wrote for the purposes of evangalizing anyone. At the same time, I do believe that the Christian themes found in his works are there as natural expressions of his world view.

Agate
The "Ainulindale" and "Valaquenta" are short stories that can be found at the beginning of the Silmarillion. The first is Arda's (the world that includes Middle Earth) creation myth and the second is basically a roster of its gods and goddesses, collectively called the Valar. But you're right in that Tolkien never develops any particular moral or ritual framework to which the people's of Middle Earth adhere. As an atheist, I personally don't find it to be problematic.
In fact, I consider the lack of overt religiosity to be one of LotR's strengths.
One can of course argue that there are several Christian themes underlying the books, and that is true to some extent, but I also think some people try a bit too hard to find connections.

Cathy
Hi Norman, I agree with you that the "lack of overt religiosity [is]one of LotR's strengths." I can't read CS Lewis anymore, though I read Narnia to my kids. But Lewis uses symbolism with a sledgehammer. Tolkien is much more open to spirituality without defining exactly what the "correct" form of it is (as I think Lewis does).

Cindy
Religion takes many forms.

My background is in the metaphysical, an universal force surrounding all things. This force has many names, including the word "love". The love between Frodo and Sam, is a very spiritual kind of love, representing "The Golden Rule". "Love one another as I had loved you."

It is interesting that evil "appears" to have overcome good, until it looks like all is lost. Only then, does the characters of the "fellowship" look within themselves, and find the courage that was there all the time to overturn the evil. The "good" within each of us prevails.

This is another concept of spiritual law. The ability of each of us to look within to find our "good". As Jesus stated, "You shall do these things and greater if you have the faith of a mustard seed." I believe Jesus was telling us to look within to find our courage, as was Tolkien.

My Response

I think you are very wrong- here's excerpts from his own letters, and by his authorized biographer.

"The Lord of the Rings," he wrote in a letter to a friend, "is of course a fundamentally religious and Christian work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." Humphrey Carpenter, author of Tolkien's authorized biography, takes this claim seriously. Tolkien's writings, he says, are "the work of a profoundly religious man." According to Carpenter, God is essential to everything that happens in The Lord of the Rings. Without Him, Middle-earth couldn't exist. But be forewarned: Evidences of God's presence are not as obvious in Tolkien's work as in Lewis' more allegorical style of writing. They are there, however - firmly embedded in the tales he insisted on calling "inventions about Truth." In fact, if you know what to look for, you may find them popping up everywhere.

As a spirit-filled Christian, I see Tolkien's spirituality everywhere Not the ritualized 'go-to-church' form, but the born in the spirit- touching the supernatural and having a communion and fellowship with God- type of faith.

In his work, you have the work of the Holy Spirit (Gandalf) ; of guardian, messenger, consoling angels (elves) ; death/redemption, the struggle and challenges of holding to that which is true; you have the evidences of that "hearing (internal) ear", healing and deliverance, words of knowledge and faith. Infact, all the gifts of the spirit.

You also have the other side of the supernatural spectrum- the fallen wizards - just as Lucifer fell, and fallen angels- the corrupted elves known as Orcs (goblins, wargs,etc) all fallen from their first estate. You also have the demon-oppressed and demon-possessed such as Gollum, the nine kings.

You have all of the characters challenges to overcome temptations, and discovering their inner conditions; these struggles are common to all, and have varying degrees of success.

You also see clearly that "To whom much is given much is required."

I can't imagine that anyone well versed in scripture could help but see the "shadows (inventions) of truth"

It seems to me that the faith-life in Tolkien was very strong, and the existence of an Almighty, supernatural God was a given. What he depicted was the struggle of Good vs Evil, the personal challenge to resist the Devil, and His ability to work all things for good in the lives of those that love Him.

Well, what do ya'll make of that?