Posted on 09/03/2002 2:42:52 PM PDT by TYBEEISLAND
Hello to all the freeper mechanics out there, We have a 1986 Suburu, its our only mode of transportation, and its broken down.. It was running fine, and just stopped like it ran out of gas, but thats not it. I've checked the coil with a test light, both sides (positive and negative) from the battery and the distributer, and they have charge, no spark comes from main coil wire to the distributer cap center, we've pulled the distributer cap and the rotor does not turn when we engage the ignition. We've replaced the coil with 2 different ones and its still not running. Also, don't know if this is important or not, but the other day the wind shield wipers just quit. We are not mechanicly inclined as you can tell. Could this be a spark plug problem? This is our only car, and its a real problem getting to work without a car. I've posted on a couple of other car sites but I figured freepers are the best, so here it is. Any advise will be greatly (GREATLY) appeciated
Excellent advice, but please, tell us what kind of engine you have, and I can look up whether it is an 'interference' type.
You say the rotor doesn't turn when the ignition is on. I assume that you mean when the engine is cranking. There are several things which could cause this, all mechanical problems, not electrical.
If the rotor is not turning when cranked then either the camshaft is not turning or the drive on the distributor is not engaging the drive from the camshaft (or, least likely the distributor mainshaft is broken). The drive could be by a gear directly off of the camshaft, or by a cog type of engagement from a camshaft driven oil pump.
Pull the distributor (usually by removing one bolt holding a clamp at the base of the distributor and just pulling it out of the engine)and examine the bottom end of the distributor shaft. Is there a broken gear or drive pin? If so you will need to replace it and install it into the engine again to see if it turns, indicating there is no internal damage to the driving member. If the distributor, after replacing the drive gear, turns while the engine is cranked then you will need to re time it in relation with the camshaft in order to complete the repair (not really that hard, but you will need to pull a valve cover to see the position of the itake & exhaust valve on #1 cylinder in relation to the ignition timing mark on the crank pulley. Intake & exhaust valves need to be fully closed and timing mark at TDC indicating a fully compressed cylinder ready to fire). BTW,it is usually cheap to buy whole distributor from a salvage yard and easier than replacing the parts. It is a good idea to mark the plug wire positions if you have removed them from the cap or spark plugs before you remove the distributor.
If you pull the distributor and the drive end looks fine (no missing gear teeth or broken cogs, pins, etc.) You will need to pull a valve cover and crank the engine to see if the camshaft is turning. Just watch to see if valves are going up and down while cranking. If they don't move you have abroken timing chain (or maybe belt, I don't know for sure which your engine uses). Or, possibly, a broken camshift or cam driving gear. If you r engine uses a belt, it is fairly cheap to replace and see if the problem is cured (you should be able to look at the belt and see if it is broken after removing the appropriate cover). Be aware that a broken belt or chain, on some engines, will destroy the engine internally by pistons hitting the open valves. If you find a broken belt (or chain) ask a subaru dealer mechanic if this is the case with your particular engine, since you might not want to proceed with a repair attempt if it is.
If your engine uses a timing chain (as mine did) this is an internal engine repair. You should be a fairly experienced mechanic before attempting internal repairs, and have a fairly well stocked tool box, access to a garage or other convenient indoor area, and an engine pulling hoist. Again, ask an experienced Subaru mechanic to see if a broken chain has probably destroyed your particular engine or not when considering an internal repair.
If the timing chain is the problem (of a broken belt has caused probable major internal damage) you may want to consider a new engine rather than a repair. A rebuilt engine could run you 1200+ dollars, but that would be more than the car would merit, However, a bit of looking around at salvage yards and classified ads should find you a good used engine for around 150 to 175 dollars. Replacing an engine whole is a fairly simple bolt turning job. You can rent a lift at most rental stores ( or do like I did with my brat and just grab ahold and manhadle it in and out if your strong enough). A used engine usually has the accessories attached (distributor, carburetor, manifolds, etc) and is quick to get up and running. A one day job, or less with a helper. If you have a manual transmission, it's a good idea to replace the clutch disk while the engine is out if you ahve many miles since your last clutch replacement. Saves doing the whold process again in the future.
The belt runs off the crankshaft, and turns the camshaft, which turns the distributor. Camshaft also opens and closes your valves.
Crankshaft turns by the starter.
Crank turns, distributor doesn't, belt is broke.
Easy to replace, belts are cheap, but you have to turn your crankshaft and camshaft to the right position before installing the belt, or your engine will never run right (if at all). Timing is everything, (not electrical timing--turning the distributor--this is mechanical timing).
I don't know where you are, but in general the belt will cost around $30, and labor maybe $150.
If you are good with tools, and patient, you can buy the book for $25, and the belt, and do it yourself. In the store, you can usually read the book a bit, and decide then if you want to do it yourself or not. Usually not hard, but you must do it EXACTLY as the book says. You will get really greasy, and it will take you 3 times as long as the mechanic--but great experience.
Some extra tools may be neccesary (read the book), to find "Top Dead Center" (TDC). Hopefully not; on a Subaru they may have marks on the pulleys, to line everything up just right before installing the belt.
Hope this helps!
As far as I have been able to find, the engine in your car is a non-interference type (as has already been stated above) and I found the belt you need (one for each side) for about $18 each ($36 total) at Autozone.
But don't run out and buy them just yet. You seem to have said above that you have the Haynes manual (they are better than Chilton IMHO), so review the timing belt procedure thoroughly, then take the book to your car, open the hood, and see if you can identify the what the book suggests you do.
As it stands now, if you want a garage to fix it, you'll have to have it towed to the garage. If you start fixing it yourself and muck it up, you'll STILL have to have it towed and pay someone to fix it.
I'd give it a go. Then again, I'm elbow deep on the same project right now, in my driveway, with a Haynes manual, on a 96 Dodge Intrepid. (How's it going? you ask. Buy Ford.)
I have replaced the timing belts on my '86 Subaru, and the marks are there, you just have to follow the instructions in the Hayes book very carefully. Since this is a boxer engine, there are two belts. The book will tell you that you need several special Subaru tools, but I was able to improvise; just figure out what the tool is supposed to do, and you can improvise as well. All that is really needed is to turn the pulley to generate slack in the belt so the tensioning spring will adjust properly.
Hope this helps.
You'll need to budget the whole day (like a Saturday), a metric ratchet set, screwdriver set, and most importantly, someone else on hand to run you out to the Autozone when you realize you need something else.
Everybody knows somebody who is good with mechanicals, pay him in beer. Follow the manual, label your parts if that helps you, and just don't be timid. Oh, and don't start the beer 'til after you've put the wrench down.
As a shadetree mechanic, I'll tell you the single biggest secret of working on your car yourself: Tearing down can be scary, but when the new part is in and you're reassembling, damn it feels great! When it turns over and runs fine, it's high-fives all around.
About pulling the distributor: If you pull the distributor, you disrupt the cam/distributor timing, and it takes an experinced mechanic to put it back (To Templar: nothing personal!). I really, really, really suggest that you don't do this unless you have been through the learning curve. :)
Distributor/timing shaft gears are "curved" (helical), and it will turn while you remove it, and even if you don't touch it after it is removed, the odds of getting it back in place exactly as it was are slim. Big can of worms; don't go there!
I'm sure Templar would, and I would, but you might want to consider not doing that.
Hey Templar, go easy here! Pulling an engine? C'mon, guy! Not everybody has your outstanding tallents and experience! :)
Ya gotta admit, the timing belt is likely broken!
Though, that would be a great way to go on a hellish, learning curve ride!
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