Elizabeth Smart thread, August 24-31, 2002

Thank YOU....I agree with you, UG, that this is not a forum for this. You said it very well...and I agree. Sometimes, people don't read any of it..and sometimes they do..I was just trying to put it in everyday language to make it understandable. Hope you realize that.

And thank you for being the sweet person you are.

Thanks again, I do appreciate your efforts at clarifying the scriptures.

1) The scriptures in Matthew, Luke, and Acts all refer to Herod's temple, the Jewish temple that was destroyed by the Roman invasion by Titus in 70 AD.

2) The Isaiah reference is the milleneal temple, the 1000 year reign where all nations will serve the Lord. In verse 3 it says he will reign from this temple in Jerusalem. In vs. 4, the world hasn't beaten its swords into plowshares yet. Reference to the millenium is when Jesus will rule and reign on the earth following the Great Tribulation, which is the 70th week of Daniel, when God will again focus on the nation of Israel. Christians will be in heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and will return with the Lord at his 2nd coming. Other references Jesus reigning from Jerusalem in the millennium:
Jeremiah 33: 15-22 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch (Jesus) of righteousness to grow up into David, and he shall execute judgement and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely, etc. This again is a promise to Israel.
Zechariah 14: 16-21 And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came up against Jerusalem (in the battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation) shall even go up from year to year and worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles, etc.

3) Revelation 7:15 is the congregation in heaven, not an earthly temple. Note vs. 11, All the angels stood around, about the elders, and the four beasts (living creatures). These are all described initially in Revelation 4: 2-end, in vs 2 - behold, a throne was set in heaven, vs. 6-9 describes the living creatures. These were seen in heavenly visions in the Old Testament and described as the Cheribum and the Seraphim. vs 10 the 24 elders (the church, casting down their golden crowns, He has made us priests and kings). We are in heaven after Revelation 3, the book of Revelation is God dealing with Israel in the 70th week of years, the Great Tribulation or Wrath period. We are not appointed to wrath, the church.

4) Malachi 3: 1-3 Again sees both comings in this prophecy, prophesy of John the Baptist then telescopes out to the 2nd coming to temple at the end of the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation. The corresponding passage is Revelation 19: 7-10 the church in heaven at the marriage supper of the lamb (the bride of Christ), 11-21 the 2nd coming and battle of Armageddon, chap 20 Satan bound and cast into the bottomless pit, vs 7 says for 1000 years (the millenium, then vs 11-15 the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the millenium, & chap 21 Heaven on earth for eternity.

Zechariah 14: 2 For I will gather the kings of the earth against Jerusalem to battle... vs. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth .... And his feet shall stand that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in two, etc.. vs 16 And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem will even go up from year to year, etc.

5) Ezekial 37: 26-27 - Ezekial chapters 36-39 is one of my favorite passages of scripture and speaks of God's dealing with the nation of Israel. In chapters 36-37 he deals with the regathering of the nation into the land. 36:19 God scattered them among the heathen, vs. 24 For I will bring you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 37:1-14 the Dry Bones prophecy, 'can these bones live' (nation of Israel) in vs 3, vs 15-25 restoration of a united kingdom, and your passage, vs 26-28 ..and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. Again this is the millenial temple in Jerusalem and it is described after the war in Chapters 38-39 (Israel restored in 39:21-29, vs 22 they shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward), in chapters 40-43 the prophet spends 4 chapters in the focus and view of this millenial temple. Sorry, but it's not your temple.

6) As far as this Lactantius fellow I'll have to look him up. But most of the New Testament was written to combat heretical teaching in the early church so it has been around from the start. There were people that followed the Apostle Paul around claiming to Christians and denied everything he had taught them and started teaching them their own doctrine. Do you know what this Lactantius did that was secret. Secrecy is always a bad sign I'm afraid to say.

I've studied the bible for 15 years and bible prophesy, which you got into with your references, is my favorite subject. This is just a taste, believe me I could type about this for the next week.

We'll have to agree to disagree. And that's all I have to say on the subject on this thread. FReepmail if you want to continue.

They're probably just paying lip service to the Smarts, just doing something to show they're doing something. Nothing will come of it, I guarantee.

Wonder where Sickler worked in 1994?

Did you conveniently forget I told you yesterday Sickler has never been convicted of aggravated sexual abuse.

Beautiful, Neenah.

The Search For Elizabeth Smart

Ongoing updates on the search for Elizabeth Smart, missing from her home in the early morning hours of June 5th.

Update:

In the near future, a kidnapping in California may sound off an alert here in Utah. Monday, Utah politicians and many others joined the effort to make some big changes. Go to story...

Police seem to be at a dead end in the Smart investigation. In a desperate attempt to reach the man who kidnapped their daughter, Ed and Lois Smart have released a letter to the abductor. Go to story...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- August 26, 2002-- In the near future, a kidnapping in California may sound off an alert here in Utah. Monday, Utah politicians and many others joined the effort to make some big changes.

News Specialist Karen Scullin has the story.

Even though Utah's kidnapping alert system, the Rachael Alert, didn't help find Elizabeth Smart, the Smart family held a news conference here today to show support for an improved and expanded system that they and many others believe could save a lot of lives.

Utah politicians and many others are *signing on* to an effort to save lives.

Right now, 15 states have a kidnapping alert system...but senators from Texas and California are leading an effort to have *every* state ready to sound an alert if a child is kidnapped.

Utah politicians said today they support the plan, and added that there's a lot of help out there not being used.

Senator Bob Bennett/(R) Utah: WE HAVE TREMENDOUS RESOURCES AT OUR COMMAND IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WE ARE NOT ORGANIZED TO USE THOSE RESOURCES IN THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY IN THESE TRAGEDIES

Rep. Jim Matheson/(D) Utah:THIS IS NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TELLING LOCAL STATES WHAT TO DO BUT IT IS OFFERING A HELPING HAND TO FACILITATE THIS AND MAKE THIS SYSTEM WORK.

The plan is in it's beginning stages, but the idea is to help all states implement an alert system and to create a system that would sound off kidnapping alerts across the various *regions* when necessary.

So a kidnapping in California could sound off a Rachael Alert here in Utah, just in case the victim and suspect have crossed state lines.

Ed Smart/Father of Kidnapping Victim:THE SUPPORT OF OUR GOVERNMENT IN FINDING CHILDREN IS A BI-PARTISAN ISSUE.

Utah's "Rachael" alert system was named after Rachael Runyan, the little girl kidnapped and murdered twenty years ago today. The system was implemented just this past April in Utah. The person responsible for the crime, has never been caught.

Jeff Runyan/Father of Kidnapping Victim: I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY HELPFUL, IT MIGHT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE

The National Center for MIssing and Exploited Childred credits alert systems for recovering 22 children since the first system was implemented six years ago.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read this a few times now, wow! Was this all off the top of your head? Are you a bible teacher?

I guess Varina may have to reconsider this issue, thanks for the info.

SAUD FAMILY WASHINGTON RETAINERS CONTINUE TO SACRIFICE US CHILDREN

US State Department has consistently covered up Saudi Arabian kidnappings of US children. As recently as the 6/14/02 Congressional hearing chaired by Congressman Dan Burton State Department officials stayed the course by denying the Committee information on Saudi abductions of US children. We are collecting information from those who have witnessed US and European child sex slaves in Saud family palaces. We believe that there should be a "remote possibility scenario" in place among police within US and Europe regarding Saud family child kidnappings. Could Elizabeth Smart of Utah or Amanda Dowler of Surrey, England have been victims of the usual "special ordered" by a Saudi Prince? We believe the US taxpayers should demand the secret statistics from their Congressmen of US children disappeared over the past three decades. Worldnetdaily reports: "after years of kowtowing to the Saudis, we have sacrificed many of the principles that have defined this great nation of ours: religious freedom, due process of law, civil liberties and human rights. The biggest losers are American women and children trapped in Saudi Arabia, whose lives are considered cheap and expendable. The biggest winners are corrupt diplomats and government officials who are profiting from our wine, beer and alcohol. The ugly untold story in our relationship with Saudi Arabia is that we have put booze over babies. ... every other month, a 40-foot cargo container of alcoholic beverages was shipped under diplomatic seal to the Jeddah port. Alcohol is forbidden in Saudi Arabia. Imagine Hunter's surprise when he discovered his assistants were involved in dividing up the lucrative cargo among Saudi police, 'special branch' security officials and corrupt U.S. personnel."A313 When the perpetrators are discovered the Saud family drag out the powerless US or British innocent guest workers to be sacrificed to the Saud family public relations torture machine. At home, Washington and London Saud family retainers obfuscate any repercussions. This duplicitous ruse allows the Saud family to say they are not puppets of Washington while perpetuating their criminal ventures. All the while, Ambassador Prince Bandar's Washington retainers continue unabated in selling access to innocent US torture victims as well as US child sex slaves. These foreign dignitaries and their Saud family partners also profit by importing illegal alcohol and drugs into Saudi Arabia in direct contravention to the tenets of Islam. Again, these connivers are allowed to operate in the very shadow of Mecca and Medina.

click to read more

Did you conveniently forget I told you yesterday Sickler has never been convicted of aggravated sexual abuse.

So what?

On that list is the name of a man who fits the suspect's description and recently had a delivery job in the Smarts' neighborhood. The man -- convicted of aggravated sexual abuse of a child in 1994 -- has failed to check in with his probation officer in the past month as required

Wonder where Sickler worked in 1994?

Because it appears your implication is Sickler may be this man but Sickler has not been convicted of aggravated sexual abuse of a child. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

On that list is the name of a man who fits the suspect's description and recently had a delivery job in the Smarts' neighborhood. The man -- convicted of aggravated sexual abuse of a child in 1994 -- has failed to check in with his probation officer in the past month as required, said Ford, who added: "That is not so uncommon."

Does anyone know the age of the milkman?? Could this be him wearing a white/beige baseball cap, also check out the description listed in the article. There's a pix of Charlie Miller on this site--

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/12/utah.teenager/?related

For some reason, I can't view the Charlie Miller that is pictured here...Is this the same person?

http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=78070&addrid=0&jurs_flg=U&name_id=193596

Name and Address
MILLER, Charles H Iii
Not Available
Address Date: Not Available
Physical Description
Ethinicity: Unknown Sex: Male
Height: Not Available Weight: Not Available lbs
Eyes: Unknown Hair: Unknown
DOB: 2/11/1975 Age: 27

Alias(es)
MILLER, Charles H
Current Vehicles
No Current Vehicles on File

Sex Offenses Offense: Sex Abuse Of A Child
Convicted: 1993-01-05
Degree: Compact Felony
Counts: 1

place marker

I saw an interview of the milkman. It was more than a week after the kidnapping, the day they first mentioned Edmunds. It was very interesting that he said police had never interviewed him. He was an old guy, late 50's I'd say, with a moustache. Very soft spoken like the kidnapper though. He said Edmunds was not the guy he had seen, the guy he saw was much smaller and thin, had short dark hair, and was driving a silver Honda or Nissan. He said he was wearing a white baseball hat just like the description MK gave. He said the guy followed him up a cul de sac and scowled at him. It was early morning light, appr. 6:00 AM so he got a good look at him.

They asked the milkman if he knew Elizabeth, and he told this weird story of how he had given some girls some sample milk one time. His implication was Elizabeth was one of the girls, but he never came out and said it. Also he was standing there wearing a white baseball hat during the interview. It was wierd, man.

A few other things from the interview of the milkman. He saw the guy on Jun 3, Monday morning, then said he was off work Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, like those were his days off.

Are you able to get this guys pix from this site..this is a Charlie Miller...For some reason, I'm getting a little x in the picture site, and since I'm not computer literate, I don't know what to do to find out why the picture isn't opening...If you can, would you post that picture, I'd appreciate it..Also, the picture of Charlie Miller on the CNN site that I posted the link for in the post I made, it's difficult to determine the age of this guy since the beak of his hat is down..

http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=78070&addrid=0&jurs_flg=U&name_id=193596

Tried, but can't open it either. Maybe it's been removed?

Interesting..wonder if anyone else can get it opened...there's been some other articles removed from the web also that I've been trying to locate..wonder why..

The little x means there's no picture there.