Judge Mudd Refuses Sequester Plea: Westerfield Jury Verdict In Sep? (Aug. 16th Verdict Watch)

Union Trib ^ | August 15, 2002 | Jeff Dillion/Steve Perez

[Freedom2specul8]

Will be back after awhile...gotta relinquish my claim to the puter for a bit. I may cry uncle on this bug dispute when I get back though. :)

[KnutCase]

You mean 3 bug witnesses and a "ringer".

[hoosiermama]

Kim yesterday this dicussion start not because of DW, but because of other young girls throughout the US who have been found murdered. Said people have had either a missing left foot or the left foot was covered by a sock.

On "google" there were over 17,000 sites that came up. I kept narrowing my search. In India, South AMerica, Native AMerican tribes; virgins have been sacrificed and the left foot was involved.

FLAME AWAY!
There was also a Video Gaming site called the LEFT FOOT.

Now isn't it possible that WE as a nation have been so involved with the individual cases, that we haven't seen the BIG picture. We may have more than one perp with similar "religious" beliefs.

[JudyB1938]

Oh, no, silly. I know you weren't calling me wrong. In fact I admitted myself that I am probably wrong. But, hey ... those experts you cited? They are BUG MEN. No "similar to" for them! No, what was it ... a deficient 13 out of 15 DNA markers that are the same to make a PERFECT MATCH! Barf!

The forensic entymologists are true scientists. I do not believe the "forensic experts" are. They play with the evidence to make it say whatever they want it to. "Similar to" CREATIVE ACCOUNTING.

[small_l_libertarian]

If you go with the later body placement suggested by the bugs, the body was exposed for two weeks or less. My own judgement was that that was fairly quick mummification. That was just my opinion.

[KnutCase]

Do you think the jury will request a re-reading of Goff's testimony? Very doubtful.

[Freedom2specul8]

Knutcase...good one. On a serious note, the prosecution and many do believe the blood etc was transferred to dw's property by criminal means. The defense hasn't given some of us any reason to believe the blood, fibers, hairs etc got there by innocent means. If they had just ONE witness claiming to see danielle and friends or brothers sneaking in the MH, the gloves would have been off....and I'd have to wonder if the prosecution had a case at all. They couldn't get one friend or brother to confirm that theory.

[ican'tbelieveit]

Even that, 3 up.

[JudyB1938]

Well, if you take into account the date the Bug Men indicated and the fact that mummification had already set in, I personally think that's quick. But there again, I might be wrong.

[small_l_libertarian]

There are also NO witnesses to back up the prosecution's contention that Westerfield was ever in the van Dam house.

But we're expected to just believe that? The state has to PROVE what it suggests, the defense does not.

[Freedom2specul8]

I really do have to leave, I'm not trying to evade your questions etc...and it's all about discussion. It's rude to flame for that..and I'm sorry you feel that I would do it. That does bother me. Cya after awhile.

[ican'tbelieveit]

The prosecution did not prove it was "blood."

The prosecution did not prove the "fibers" belonged to anyone.

The prosecution did not prove who the "hair" belonged to.

Now, if you want to go on the print alone, I will give the prosecution 1.

The dogs didn't hit Westerfield's motorhome, how come? We have all seen dogs locate people buried under rubble of collapsed buildings.

Defense is still up 3.

[JudyB1938]

I'm not quite sure if I am catching the drift of your comment. It sounds like you think I think DW is a satanist. I don't. But I DO believe the Demon is capable of it.

But really who I have in mind is that international porn group, who are KNOWN to abuse/rape/video children right there in that area. Don't forget the backpack they found at the park. It is very feasible that Danielle decided to go to the park and was abducted by one of those men.

Danielle had gone to the park alone before. Brenda SAID she'd watch from her yard. Hah! I believe that one. NOT!

[sawsalimb]

If you go with the later body placement suggested by the bugs, the body was exposed for two weeks or less. My own judgement was that that was fairly quick mummification. That was just my opinion.

I don't know anything about mummification,but a few years ago I got to work for a while in the desert in Southern Cal.(Barstow,to be precise). I was there from March to July,and the spring wasn't as hot as I expected,but it's very dry indeed. I'd guess that a small cadaver could start to dry out pretty fast.

[wonders]

Well, here's another bit of transcript (to save your eyes and keep you from having to wade through but testimony): From Haskell's testimony:

Q SO HOWEVER LONG THE BODY WAS THERE BEFORE IT GOT OPENED UP WOULD HAVE MUMMIFIED THE EXTERIOR OF THE BODY.

A AGAIN, IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH ANIMALS FEEDING, USUALLY THEY WILL COME IN AND FEED RATHER EARLY ON THE FRESHER TISSUES, NOT -- I DON'T THINK THAT THE ANIMALS, THE CARNIVORES, WOULD WAIT UNTIL THAT TISSUE IS TOO BADLY MUMMIFIED BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO CHEW, HARD TO TEAR OFF. IF THAT WAS THE CASE, THEY COULD HAVE -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER HAD THE EXPERIENCE TO PULL OFF MUMMIFIED TISSUES OFF A BODY, BUT IT CAN BE QUITE DIFFICULT AND QUITE TOUGH TO DO THAT. AND SO IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE ANIMALS TO FEED WHEN THOSE TISSUES ARE MUCH WETTER AND FRESHER.

It needs a little common sense, folks. Coyotes and the like prefer fresh bodies. Why would they wait to feed on the body until it was already dried out on the exterior and putrefied in the interior? Crazy nut theory of Duseks, IMO.

Also, in my own experience, animal activity tended to occur during the first days. After that, didn't see much -- unless pigs were loose in the area. Pigs will eat the most disgusting things. Wish I'd never seen it.

[CAPPSMADNESS]

The skin is the issue..it was mummified first

From what I have read in the transcripts, only the extremeties and face areas were mummified

the body fluids are the second issue..they did not settle beneath the body like normal

Kim, if the corpse did not show normal signs of livor mortis, then that would be evidence that the body was moved, wasn't it testified to that the body did not appear to be moved?

The third issue is that since the body didn't decompose in the normal way, the standards for testing the TOD or even Date of dumping..has to be altered to account for the oddities. (don't you just love normal discussions without the bs)

Kim, from my understanding, the body decomposed in a very normal way, except for the "mummificaton" - to mummify a body takes some pretty extreme arid/hot conditions - and a storage compartment just doesn't seem like a good place to get the factors that play into this.

[wonders]

No probs if you're calling two weeks or less "quick" mummification -- I wouldn't call that "quick" either, but perfectly normal. Dusek was talking about hours and days. Again, I stress PARTIAL mummification as we all know the interior organs were certainly not mummified.

[KnutCase]

Two BIG things stand out in this case:

1. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that places DW in Danielle's bedroom.

2. The sniffer dogs cannot place Danielle in the MH that weekend.

If you cannot place the suspect at the scene of the crime...and if you cannot place the victim in the MH (getaway vehicle)...you have a HUGE area of reasonable doubt. Case closed. Go look for another suspect. Any suggestions as where to start?

[small_l_libertarian]

I don't contend in any way that the body was mummified any deeper than the skin, except that the hands were completely mummified.

You are the second person to tell me that's not so quick, so I withdraw my comment.

[ican'tbelieveit]

There you go, defense is back up 4.

So lets give Kim the porn just for giggles (again, not proven, and the "rape" scene is not a crime according to the Supreme Court), Defense still up 3.