Elizabeth Smart case, August 14, 2002

[IamHD]

New thread for the 14th of August.

[IamHD]

Ping!

[IamHD]

Ping!

[Jolly Green]

Ping

[L84AD8]

Good morning, and thanks for the ping!

[freedox]

I was just reading your comments on yesterday's thread about when the neighbors were called in vs. when the police were called. This issue was discussed pretty extensively on past threads. Let me try to recap......

According to police logs, the Smart call came in at 4:01 am, and police responded to the scene eleven minutes later. I recall an extended debate here about what could have feasibly taken place during that eleven minute time span. It was my position that eleven minutes was NOT sufficient time for approximately 10 neighbors to be assembled in the Smart home before the police arrived. Utah Girl and others argued that it WAS sufficient time, as close friends will rush to help as soon as they are called.

I had a number of problems with the "rushing to help" scenario. One, there was apparently an armed gunman in the neighborhood.......would these neighbors not have first taken the time to check the safety of their own homes and children before rushing to the Smart home? Did these neighbors leave their own families unattended, or did entire families have to be roused and dressed before going to the Smart house? It was my contention that eleven minutes was not enough time for these things to have taken place. Others on the thread disagreed. Also, with reports of an armed gunman in the neighborhood, the scenario of neighbors rushing out of their homes and searching the bushes in the dark seemed unlikely to me. Once again, others on the thread argued that it seemed perfectly "normal" to them for neighbors to respond in such a way.

Like you, I was left with many questions in my mind about what happened when that night. I, too, would like to see a detailed timeline on who was called, when they were called, and when they arrived at the house.......but I don't think we'll ever see one.

[freedox]

Oops......since I mentioned you in my post #6, I should have pinged you to it. I wasn't picking on you, I just remember you having some pretty clear thoughts on this issue and responding to it.

[MiloMarch]

Of course! ALL the neighbors are in on it too!

But ssshhh - it's supposed to be a secret. You see, EVERYONE in SLC is actually in on it, except for a few people that just can't be trusted to keep a secret.

LOL

[Utah Girl]

Actually, the reports I've heard said the police were called at 4:01 am and responded at 4:08 am that morning to the Smart home. There were neighbors there at the home already. How many, I don't know, and I did see one local news report where a neighbor across the street received a phone call about the abduction. She and her husband immediately got up, put clothes on, and were at the Smart home. She said the police tape was already up when she and her husband got there. So.....

If I were a defense lawyer for the perp in this case, I'd make sure that I got a good timeline on the chaos that morning. Who was called when, etc. Phone records can be checked, etc. And I'd sure make the argument that the crime scene was contaminated and how could they be sure of the evidence, who was in the home, how did the evidence get there, not by my client, etc. Something along those lines.

[sandude]

She and her husband immediately got up, put clothes on, and were at the Smart home. She said the police tape was already up when she and her husband got there. So.....

Another thing that comes to mind is that the Smarts had a group of people in their home the evening before the abduction. Perhaps somebody else remembers seeing this as well. This could explain why LE wanted to get fingerprints from neighbors who were there that night. That way if they found a print that matched nobody elses they could zero in on a possible suspect. Is it possible that this business of the crime scene being contaminated has been a little overblown? Does anyone have any reliable published account of how many neighbors were in the house when LE arrived? You'd think it couldn't have been that many in the seven between the call and the response. I'm not trying to dispute what others have posted, I'm just trying to clear this up.

[Utah Girl]

Good points. And there really isn't a good published report of how many neighbors were in the home before the police arrived. I remember reading an account early on by a police officer that the crime scene had been contaminated by having neighbors there before the police arrived. That particular policeman sounded disgusted and made it sound as if the whole neighborhood was there. But no actual figures have ever been published that I have read.

[sandude]

Another thing that comes to mind is that no matter what the situation was in the morning, the Smart home would have been loaded with foriegn DNA and fingerprints from the gathering that was held the evening before. This alone would have complicated the investigation without anyone having come into the home on that morning. I'm not suggesting that the crime scene wasn't contaminated after the abduction, but the party the night before would have had the same result.

[Neenah]

Investigators have just received results of the dusting of the Smart home for fingerprints, and want to see which of the prints can be crossed off the list as belonging to friends of the family who came to help the Smarts after the disappearance of the girl.

Police hope this will help them identify someone who might have been in the house without the Smarts' knowledge.

"We are not using this to implicate anybody," Salt Lake City police spokesman Sgt. Fred Louis said. "We just want to verify who was in the home that morning."

Police told The Associated Press that five of the eight male neighbors who were asked to provide their fingerprints did so on Monday. The other three were out of town and said they would give police their prints when they return, the news agency reported.

Police continued to deny reports there are plans to ask neighbors to submit blood or DNA samples, though they say that could happen as the investigation develops.

Source/Full Article

So it looks like 11 people? men.

[Neenah]

Does anyone have any reliable published account of how many neighbors were in the house when LE arrived?

Oops, sandude, I posted the wrong thing. sorry. I can't remember reading an account of the number of people in the house when the PD arrived. Will check on it tho.

[Neenah]

YOU are my hero !!! thanks spore!!

[Utah Girl]

Plus, Lois's father had just died the previous Saturday and the funeral was Monday. Who knows was in the house on that day.