LoTR-The Two Towers: Book discussion (The Green Dragon Inn) III

[ksen]

...even when Merry had cut off several of their arms and hands. Good old Merry!…

I would just like to second Pippen's thought - Good old Merry!

I think our hobbits have grown quite a bit since they left the Shire. I bet before they started out on this grand adventure that Merry never thought he would even be able hold his ground before an orc, never mind relieving them of several of their various extremities.

[carton253]

The best part of THE TWO TOWERS is that Smeagol is in it...!

[2Jedismom]

Merry had cut off several of their arms and hands. Good old Merry!…

I'm with you on this! I love this part of the book...it's really a time for the Halflings to shine. I dearly hope they put something of this in the movie!!

[Corin Stormhands]

I dearly hope they put something of this in the movie!!

Don't you think they've set us up for that? I mean, they were such lovable goofs at the beginning, but at the end they risk their lives so that Frodo can get away.

[ksen]

The best part of THE TWO TOWERS is that Smeagol is in it...!

Well, that goes without saying. ;^)

Where ya' been? We miss you over at the HH.

[Alkhin]

On the Pippin's Playgroup thread in Imladris, we got into several serious discussions about this chapter...somehow lately our serious chap by chap discussion got waylaid by trailer release photos and DVD photos and convention photos...and well, lots of other things...

anyway, being the Took lovers we are, we agreed that this was where Pippin and Merry really began to exert themselves as characters. As someone pointed out earlier, its a long time before we from Frodo and Sam...and I remember when I first read it, I was skipping all over the book trying to figure out what happened to the Ringbearer...I was worried about him too!!...that I think is one of the 'negative' things about reading JRRT's book...it made me read out of order.

Someone on our playgroup forum asked why it was that Tolkien chose PIPPIN's point of view in the chapter rather than Merry's. We never really came to a definitive conclusion, except maybe to perhaps redeem the established 'trouble-maker' of the group as doing a bit of growing up, since they were separated from ones who were nobler, stronger, and had more at stake in the Journey.

[2Jedismom]

to perhaps redeem the established 'trouble-maker' of the group as doing a bit of growing up,

This is what I think. I agree with this. Just goes to show once again Tolkien's unbelievable ability to take a potentially insignificant character and shine them with brilliant light. Pippin shows the character of all Hobbits in this part of the book. That underlying level of strength, courage and determination. An indomitable spirit.

[Overtaxed]

Someone on our playgroup forum asked why it was that Tolkien chose PIPPIN's point of view in the chapter rather than Merry's.

To show the "clueless" "getting the clue"?

[Alkhin]

Because I love the little blighter (and I am one of those who thinks Gandalf is actually quite amused and delighted by Pippin), I have to come to the defense of 'my little guy' and say that I doubt it has less to do with him being 'clueless' as 'immature' and 'inexperienced.' Cluelessness in my mind indicates lack of intelligence...which the movie hands over in spades...but there isn't enough time or need to explain to the audience the Book Pippin who knows the Shire like the back of his hand and is more or less someone who doesnt pay attention to details, but is hardly STUPID.

Pippin in old age would be more the affable and absentminded professor than a doddering fool. He did the foolishness in his youth, which is as it should be.

Esgaroth playfully and goodnaturedly and will all liking to her friend Overtaxed sticks her tongue at him/her.

So there! LOL!!

[Alkhin]

whoa, I just realized I used my imladris nick...

ROFL!!

now who's being absentminded?????

[HairOfTheDog]

I am back up-to-speed!

Turns out the "unseen barrier" that was set before me was my labrador who had unplugged my ethernet adapter when he was laying under my desk!

[Overtaxed]

Cluelessness in my mind indicates lack of intelligence

I was working from the perspective that "cluelessness" is more a lack of awareness rather than intelligence. It's like "not getting it" or "not seeing the big picture" and "getting a clue" is coming to understand the realities of the situation. In my mind a "clueless" person has the intelligence to understand, he or she is just a bit late to the party. :)

[Overtaxed]

Woof!

[HairOfTheDog]

Kevin's point about Merry and Pippin coming into their own here is a good one. I think that is what you meant too, right OT? They begin here what I always thought was a very odd turn of events, and I am not even talking about ents! I mean what happens after that. I always thought it was interesting and surprising that Tolkien separated them and gave them fairly surprising roles from here on out!

[Alkhin]

I was working from the perspective that "cluelessness" is more a lack of awareness rather than intelligence. It's like "not getting it" or "not seeing the big picture" and "getting a clue" is coming to understand the realities of the situation. In my mind a "clueless" person has the intelligence to understand, he or she is just a bit late to the party. :)

GOTCHA, I see what you mean now. :D :D (wish I had clever little smilies to enter here!!)

late to the party

Who?! Pippin?????????!!! LOL

[Corin Stormhands]

I always thought it was interesting and surprising that Tolkien separated them and gave them fairly surprising roles from here on out!

Must've had really good agents.

[Overtaxed]

late to the party

Who?! Pippin?????????!!!

Out gathering mushrooms, no doubt. :)

[Alkhin]

ROFLMAO!

[Scott from the Left Coast]

And this is before drinking the Ent's water (which grew 'em)! Bringing out the inherent "toughness" of the Hobbits and their growth from meek innocents -- afraid even of their own shadows -- to tough warriors, capable of humiliating Sauron and Wormtongue, is one of the more unrenowned of the themes of this tome.

It's a very important, yet little discussed aspect. Merry and Pippin best exemplify this -- for they even grew in physical stature, not just in the development of confidence and bravery.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

The best part of THE TWO TOWERS is that Smeagol is in it...!

Oh that's just precious.