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And is the judicial system forcing men to make babies out of wedlock?

In a way it is. A woman knows that if she has a child she will get welfare or child support and need not work for a living so this encourages women to take no precautions and even encourages them to deceive men into producing children.

A woman knows that if she has a child she will get welfare or child support and need not work for a living so this encourages women to take no precautions and even encourages them to deceive men into producing children.

And men are incapable of abstaining from casual sex, even knowing how things are these days? What's wrong with building a relationship first instead of just nailing every woman who puts out?

A woman knows that if she has a child she will get welfare or child support and need not work for a living so this encourages women to take no precautions and even encourages them to deceive men into producing children.

This thread is probably the greatest incentive that I've seen to get a vascectomy.

In a way it is. A woman knows that if she has a child she will get welfare or child support and need not work for a living so this encourages women to take no precautions and even encourages them to deceive men into producing children.

That's about it. I know one of my buddies is going with a girl who has been married twice (still married to #2), have three kids, one to #1 (9 years old), one to #2 (22 months), and one to a 3rd guy (4 months). She's 36 and still lives with her parents but wants to move out on her own. The answer to the next question most will ask me is "yes." For those of you who don't know the question, it is "is she on welfare?" So she is looking for subsidized housing and so far as I know, she wants him to move in with her. IMHO, I think my friend is making a bad mistake with her, but I don't think it will last 'till the end of the year knowing the stability of her relationships. Still she keeps him on a short leash. It takes everything to hold back from saying, "dude, you're making a big mistake." I try to nudge a little, but there have been losses of a few friends from our circle because of it and I think it will crash anyhoo, I hope, so I want to be there for him.

Why should some women get married? Heck, they can go out and "shag" with some guy for what they want. If he quits being a money machine, move along to the next one. If she has kids, no problem there is welfare and subsiidized housing. If she wants more, well she can go out and "shag" again.

Why should some men get married? If there are women out there willing, well they can get it for free? As somebody said, "if the milk is free, why buy the cow?"

I'm not saying that everybody is that way and of that thought, from here and many other places, there are plenty of responsible people out there, maybe you don't always see it, the "Jerry Springer Crowd" is very visible and vocal, but there are times I wonder if Western Civilization is teetering on the brink.

Myself, I'll be 36 Monday, a freelance web designer starting out on my own plus I work for a client as well. I live at home with my mother, but I don't freeload, I drop my share of shekels in the pot and help out at home.

Sometimes if there is welfare out there supporting people like I illustrated above, makes me wonder why I continue to work? Still I wasn't brought up to suck money from the State (actually from working people) or "shag" every girl I meet. I never really dated much, I want to get my house in order first, but who knows, I hope to meet Miss Right someday.