The Mustang Mach 1 Returns!

Wouldn't be funtional at all but would generate a TON of PR. How about Ford fit the "new" Mustang with gullwing doors? Similar to the old Mercedes 300sl AND of course highly identifiable with the GT40. In fact in the pictures of the new Mustang it looks to me like te roof line and rear deck have been altered just a tiny bit to make it appear more related to the GT40.

That would be a gimmick. The Mercedes engineers had to do it that way. I forgot why, but the gullwings were a fairly straightforward solution to an engineering problem. The Bricklin and Delorian DMC-12 had gullwings and they didn't set the world on fire.

My advice to Ford - stick to the basics. They know how to do this stuff. It gets mighty disappointing when you research a car (I was thinking of a Eagle Vision a/k/a Dodge Stealth, Chrysler Concord, for the wife), find it to be beautiful car with cab-forward design with lots of room. Did I mention it looks great?! Oh wait, trannies go bad at 100K if you're lucky. Somewhat like the reliability of the GenII Taurus electronically controled transmission. I have a big problem with a company that probably had a hand in inventing the transmission, having made them for almost 100 years, not being able to put a bulletproof unit in a $25K+ car!! They aren't as reliable as the 727 Torqueflight in my long gone I-6 AMC Spirit. That's real lame. So it's not a question that the Japanese of Germans are "better". I can't be convinced that the engineers at GM/Ford/Chrysler don't know how to do it. Somewhere, somehow, in management, some chump decides to chisel away at designs so the subassembly can come in $2 cheaper. I have three Toyotas now and I almost never see that in their designs.

I've been renting Tauruses like the rest of the world for years and noticed with the Gen III Taurus, they had a pretty good car. The last few Gen IIIs I rented back when they were new had (again) poor build quality. Wind noise at 65, etc.

Bill Ford needs to change some attitudes or something. There is a huge segment of the buying public that has been burned too many times by the Big Three and won't come back until they prove they can do it right. With options like Lexus, Acura, Audi, Infinity and BMW wooing mid market Toyota/Honda/Nissan buyers, how can he convince us to visit a Ford showroom?

They better come up with a better solution than they usually do (good looking cars).

I guess, reading some posts, that my car is an anomaly. I bought my '91 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 brand-new and still drive it daily. I've had no breakdowns, it's fun to drive, has power to spare, and baisically keeps right on chugging. The stereo even sounds as good now as it did new.

She's got nearly 120,000 miles on her, has seen winters in Maine and summers in Florida and springs in Memphis. She's rode the North-South corridor of the east coast five times.

That little LX does show her age-her paint is faded, as are her headlights, and I think the driver's seat is molded to my body, permanently. She's also picked up a ding or two in her time, but parts are easily found. A recent broken tailight was replaced in 3 days, for only $135.

Despite 11 years of hard, daily use, she still runs well, and can still accelerate fast enough to snap your head back. I'd say I got my money's worth-all $12,000 worth.

Not all American-made cars are crap, guys. NOBODY does V-8's, rear-drive, and pure driving fun like American manufacturers. When they listen to their core consumer base, as this thread topic shows, they kick a$$ and take names.

Mustang-of-the-month? To me, that sounds like filling market niches and offering choices to consumers. The reaction on automotive-related websites is overwhelmingly positive. Ford will make money on this segment, without doubt. GM and Chrysler will notice(and possibly already have, given GM's GTO announcement and Chrysler's Crossfire project) and provide competition. Enthusiasts will rejoice, and head for the street and track.

It's probably no coincidence that the reputation of American cars suffered at the same time as that of America herself; the 1970's. Prior to that time, U.S. cars were justifiably regarded as the best in the world. The malaise of the Carter years, coupled with an energy "crisis" that caught Detroit off guard, smeared American cars with a greasy stain that has taken twenty years to wipe away. IMHO, they've come a long way. And it's perhaps poetic that this new renaissance is grounding itself on designs from that pre-1970 Golden Age.

Just one gearhead's opinion...

Was that the same 2.3 in the Turbo Coupe they stuck in the Mustang SVO?

Yup. It's a very nice engine. It's pretty strong, and has a lot of potential, too.

The MKIII doesn't count. :) I owned one and put a lot of miles on one. Nice car, but just an anemic 5.0 on the standard 'bird chassis. I still liked the car. Build quality awful. Was rather strange some 25 year old kid with a Lincoln as his car.

True.. A friend of mine (20 years old, BTW), is on his second Mark VII. His first was a '90. It had uncomfortable seats, a lousy interior, it rode poorly, it was noisy, etc. I got a headache from being in it more than 10 minutes. He eventually ended up with an 89. It has a totally different interior which is MUCH nicer, the seats are great, it's quieter, etc. I couldn't believe how much Ford screwed that car up later on. It is pretty slow though, but then again it does weigh 4000 pounds. He had to get it flat-bedded once (bad fuel pump) and the tow truck winch was barely able to pull it up!

Somewhere, somehow, in management, some chump decides to chisel away at designs so the subassembly can come in $2 cheaper.

EXACTLY. A few years ago Ford redesigned a part in their truck transmissions to save some tiny amount of money per unit. They started producing the trannies, then discovered that if you floored it, got above 4500 rpm in second gear, and abruptly let off the gas, the transmission would immediately fail every time. So they had to stop production, recall them (none had made it to consumers, fortunately), go back to the old design, etc. I'm sure that wasted more money than they ever would have saved right there. I wish companies (especially--but not exclusively--American companies) would realize that most people do not want to buy a cheap throwaway piece of junk.

Unfortunately, I do have to agree with you guys regarding the "cheaply made" parts and their consequences. However, what's the alternative?

If all parts were made to the exacting standards you support, a basic automobile would cost over $35,000! Most of the cost of a modern American car is made up of things such as taxes(huge, and mostly hidden), regulatory costs, legal costs(ALWAYS transferred directly to the consumer), mandatory safety and environmental features, and union labor costs. In other words, things almost completely unrelated to the cost of actually building the car.

Since these factors(especially the government-related ones) tend to inexorably rise year after year, the automakers have to save money somewhere, or no one will buy their cars (note: many of these same factors DO NOT affect foreign manufacturers to the same degree they do to American-based companies).

My own personal suggestions for getting quality, affordable U.S.-made autos? Simple.

1. Tort Reform.
2. Repeal of CAFE standards.
3. Reduction of "corporate" taxes.
4. Reduction or repeal of onerous regulations.
5. Somehow reduce union influence on corporate practices.
6. Tort Reform.

Doing these and some other things would help immeasurably, in auto manufacturing and many other industries as well. Not that I think the "Big Three" are all Saints, but it is useful to realize that not ALL our complaints are their direct fault. Every class-action lawsuit, every new tax on "those evil corporate barons", every wrongheaded environmental regulation and nanny-state safety requirement serves to increase the prices we pay, and reduce the overall quality in an attempt to hold the price line.

Happily, We The People do have some say in those outside costs.

You are correct in the lame issues that face the Big 3, but the Japanese face worse and the Germans worse still.

However, there is one point that you make that just falls into their way of thinking...

If all parts were made to the exacting standards you support, a basic automobile would cost over $35,000! Most of the cost of a modern American car is made up of things such as taxes(huge, and mostly hidden), regulatory costs, legal costs(ALWAYS transferred directly to the consumer), mandatory safety and environmental features, and union labor costs. In other words, things almost completely unrelated to the cost of actually building the car.

This is totally untrue. I've got 220K on my 87 Supra and it's as solid as a rock. This isn't a big deal. The cars just last. There's no magic here and Toyotas and Hondas are not much more expensive than comparable models from Detroit. Nearly all of the QC gripes are not new technology, but stuff that's as old as dirt. Stuff they figured out in the 50s & 60s. It's just they always do stuff on the cheap.

Sometimes is seems as though people want cheap cars that fall apart at 100K. However, it all starts with people cutting them slack.

That's a '69, right?

Sure is. My favorite year as it was a little more sleek and had nicer curves than the '68 or '67 1/2.

I had one a while back with a similar color scheme, a killer 327 under the hood and a two speed electro-glide tranny (all top end).

After I had it up to 125 mph once on a back road in Georgia it started to run kind of crappy, so I went and rebuilt it again. When I pulled the oil pan I found these big metal shavings on the bottom.

I was constantly working on that thing, but it was a great car.

As a matter of fact, I have a pic. I'll scan it right now and post it.

Sweet rides, Best. Personally, I don't get involved in the ongoing "Bow Tie versus Blue Oval" debates...they'll never end. Point is, both companies build some pretty fine rides when they've a mind to(and when they let true enthusiasts do the designing). Case in point: the recent Camaro SS and Trans Am WS6 were both, according to some, the best of their breed overall since the '60s. They sure carried the ponies to give most Cobras a hard time on the street.

I'm firmly convinced that the demise of these great automobiles was due to a great many missteps on GM's part, both in marketing and in production.

I have always loved ponycars in general, including those made by Mopar. Collectively, they represent driving fun and exitement for the masses. In their heyday, they enabled those without $50,000+ to enjoy true performance, directly from the factory, and in vehicles that are, to this day, unique to America. Long May They Roar!

Couple of questions. Stock bottom end? Stock ECU? What about fuel system?

Elsewhere on the site it mentions having an aftermarket fuel injection controller which would replace the ECU, and a ported fuel rail. There's no mention of running bigger injectors, the factory units are 35 lb/hr which is probably enough. There are people running more than 375 hp on a bottom end that is totally stock other than improved rod bolts. It's a very good engine, obviously engineered before the beancounters took over in that department. I had a car with a Ford 3.8 V6 and my dad's Ranger has a dying 2.9. Totally different story with those piles of crap!

Elsewhere on the site it mentions having an aftermarket fuel injection controller which would replace the ECU, and a ported fuel rail. There's no mention of running bigger injectors, the factory units are 35 lb/hr which is probably enough. There are people running more than 375 hp on a bottom end that is totally stock other than improved rod bolts. It's a very good engine...

Aftermarket fuel controller? Must have aftermarket ignition also. Prolly Electromotive - popular amoungst the domesic crowd. Maybe Haltech E6A.

Ported rail? As if a rail has enough material (ala exhaust manifold) to port? That's new to me. 35 lb/hr. Hmmm.. Another different system of measurements than I'm used to. The Supra peak-and-hold injectors are 430cc and can take a 3.0L to about 325 RWHP. 550s are required above that. Those must be some injectors to handle double the stock HP!

Rod bolts? Bottom end not stock. But, not bad all the same. Any other cars than the bird & SVO stang this engine went into? The XR4Ti wasn't a turbo car, was it? Do you know the types of trannys bolt up? Do they take 300+ RWHP?

Never though I'd talk car-tech on FR. Wow. :)

The age of the muscle car is not long past! It is here now! The 1968 400 cubic inch Pontiac GTO could do an 8 second zero to sixty in a stock configuration. There are 5 cylinder supercharged Volvo station wagons out there right now that can do that same thing in 7.3 seconds.

The new Corvette Z06 can do a 4 second zero to sixty.

The engine controls, computers, well planned intake and exhaust systems, valve timing, suspension, rubber and such have led to a time where the performance of modern performance cars is well above that of what you could buy in 1968-1972.

Some cars now are seriously fast! Heck, the Toyota Celica does a 7.3 second zero to sixty and sticks in the curves with a .86 G pad reading.

Just doing a thread update... Per Blue Oval News and others, the horsepower numbers on the Mach-1 are 305 bhp, with 320 ft/lbs of torque (although some posters on their Mustang threads swear that the motor really gets about 325 hp). The price on the ride is $28,500 on MSRP (invoice appears to be about $26,000, however. I love the 'net!)

The car recently was tested on some dragstrips and put up some impressive numbers...12.9 second quarters, stock.

Incidentally, the new Cobras are posting some wild numbers as well: dyno tests by some automotive magazines reveal an astonishing 410 hp on stock examples, and this climbed to 425-430 with some bolt-on exhaust and intake components. it also dove into the 12-second marks on the quarter mile.

Hey, since all the environazis are all flapped up about the eeeevvvviiilll SUV's, maybe we should REALLY pi$$ them off, and buy these new muscle cars. You have to admit, the look on some liberal-in-a-Yugo's face as you blow by with open pipes is priceless!

Mach-1 Registry. More photos here!

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