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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

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To: doubled
Yeah, he got re-embodied at some point... the Fall of Gondolin was near the end of the First Age, btw. Glorfindel was probably 'sent back', similar to the way Gandalf was, because there was something he still needed to accomplish. He's one of the few cases of Elves getting re-bodied and then being allowed to hang out around us Human types.
2,861 posted on 04/19/2002 9:40:42 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
He's one of the few cases of Elves getting re-bodied and then being allowed to hang out around us Human types.

Are you sure about Glorfindel? I seem to remember a discussion way back, probably in the old Hobbit Hole, that this was just a reuse of a name, not the same character. Isn't it true that Tolkien talks about this matter in his letters?

2,862 posted on 04/19/2002 10:54:33 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
He does, and he indicated that it is the same Glorfindel. That was the conclusion we came to last time we had this discussion!
2,863 posted on 04/19/2002 11:05:10 AM PDT by JenB
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To: HairOfTheDog;2Jedismom;Penny1;Overtaxed;ecurbh
Whoo-hoo! According to TORn, LotR is nominated for several Hugo awards! A quote....two books in the category for Best Related Book (nonfiction), and one film for Best Dramatic Presentation.

See the article here! For those who don't know, the Hugo is one of the most revered Science fiction/fantasy awards, last year's... wrongness notwithstanding. It is voted for every year by the attendees of the WorldCon - that's ordinary geeks, not weird actor types like the Oscars.

2,864 posted on 04/19/2002 11:58:35 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Followup to last post. The offical Hugo site is here, you can see a complete list of who got nominated. Passage is up for best novel! Yeah! Go Connie Willis, win yet another Hugo award!

Oh, sorry, this is Tolkien related stuff, but Connie Willis is just such a great author... go read her To Say Nothing of the Dog. Trust me, if you have a working sense of humor and like well written stories, you'll like it.

Anyway, LotR is probably a shoo-in for best movie.... the competition is Harry Potter, Monsters Inc, Shrek, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Although Harry Potter 4 did win for best novel last year, that was because of a very weak field, in which the other four nominees were A. books no one had ever heard of or B. books which are in the middle of a fantasy series and should have won anyway but I think the Hugo people are afraid of Robert Jordan syndrome.

So, check it out if you feel like it... this makes my day, it's so much better than the Oscars because this is fan stuff, not snooty Hollywood people stuff.

2,865 posted on 04/19/2002 12:04:00 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
I seem to remember a discussion way back, probably in the old Hobbit Hole, that this was just a reuse of a name, not the same character.

Yes it was in the old Hole, I remember it well. Caused some trouble when I suggested that Tolkien screwed up and had to write himself out of a corner :) I'll see what I can find out in The Letters about this.

I was wrong...I wasn't around for a while. I forgot about the department appreciation luncheon. Then they gave us the rest of the afternoon off. I'm off to trim the verge before the neighbors start squawking!

2,866 posted on 04/19/2002 12:06:30 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: JenB
What do you think? When I listen to the Ring calling Aragorn, it sounds like it's saying ARE-agorn. And when Arwen speaks his name in the movie, she seems to say ARE-agorn. Now I know ar(a) means "high, noble, royal" and that Arwen means "high, noble or royal maiden" so would it be AIRwen? (Do they ever say Arwen's name in the movie?) Doesn't sound right.

But then Legolas says "AIR-agorn, son of AIR-athorn...you owe him your allegiance."

I've always said "AIR-agorn...what about you?

2,867 posted on 04/19/2002 3:32:23 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
I say it Air-a-gorn.... maybe it's British pronunciation?
2,868 posted on 04/19/2002 3:36:54 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Hmmm...I kinda like it. It seems to me that it's a more "proper" way of pronouncing it and even The Dark Lord gives a sort of homage to Aragorn's lineage by saying it that way. Maybe PJ did it that way to show the difference between the common tongue and high speech, because Arwen says it to Aragorn while she's speaking elvish..

I have no idea, but I like it!

2,869 posted on 04/19/2002 3:46:04 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
Yeah, I like that too... what do you think about the Hugo award nominations? Do you care?
2,870 posted on 04/19/2002 3:51:52 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB; HairoftheDog
JenB, yes, I began (forced myself to begin) with The Hobbit, although I saw FotR before I finished reading it. I have had this overwhelming sense that there is a good chronology in which one should read Tolkien in order to have his writing make the most sense, so starting with Bilbo's story made the most sense. But it is easy for a reader to lose the trail after the trilogy.

Thank you for your excellent recommendations. I am copying and pasting them into an Email to myself so I'll have them at hand (same for HairoftheDog's suggestions). Interestingly, I figured that Silmarillion should be next, but didn't want to go with my uneducated guess. I came to that conclusion after reading Sam and Frodo's discussion at the end of The Two Towers about the tales and adventures of the Silmarillion, how they were darker and more desperate adventures than what Frodo and Sam were experiencing, and yet they got through their "tale" and in doing so, passed on the light of Earendil for Sam and Frodo to use in the dark places.

Thanks. You folks are the best.

2,871 posted on 04/19/2002 3:55:16 PM PDT by GretchenEE
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To: JenB
I've never heard of them, but I'm thrilled you're so excited over them! They sound like a big deal! Of course I'm happy any time someone honors the story I love so much, so I'm glad about that. I'll keep my eyes peeled for when you post the results.
2,872 posted on 04/19/2002 3:57:08 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: GretchenEE
Always happy to help! Good for you, reading "The Hobbit" first even though the movie was coming out... I'll bet you really appreciated the jokes about Bilbo's adventures, and the map!
2,873 posted on 04/19/2002 3:58:14 PM PDT by JenB
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To: 2Jedismom
The Hugos really are the top awards in SF and Fantasy - along with the Nebulas, but that's awarded by authors, not just fans. Generally if a book or short story wins the award it means that fans really love it, that it really stands out about the crowd that year. I don't think 'movie' is usually as big a deal - but there again it's a fan thing. Last year's movie winner was Galaxy Quest, which just goes to show that sci-fi freaks can laugh about themselves...

Anyway, LotR was a shoo-in for nominee, but even so, it says something. The award doesn't get chosen until July or August, but I'll let you know whether it wins...

2,874 posted on 04/19/2002 4:03:02 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Well, I could tell the Hugos were something special, because your posts about them just seemed to pop with excitement!
2,875 posted on 04/19/2002 4:11:01 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
Special to me, anyway - and then finding out that Willis was nominated for her latest work was just like adding icing to the cake, in terms of getting me excited. It's kinda odd that on a Tolkien thread we seem to have so few hardcore fantasy/sf people, or maybe it's simply a testiment to Tolkien's incredible talent.
2,876 posted on 04/19/2002 4:19:58 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
The "Glorfindel Question" isn't addressed in The Letters According to The Encyclopedia of Arda:
The only real resource we have to answer this question is in The Peoples of Middle-earth (The History of Middle-earth Vol. 12): XIII Last Writings, Glorfindel. Christopher Tolkien dates the notes he gives here at 1972, the year before his father's death.
I don't have that book...sorry :(
2,877 posted on 04/19/2002 4:36:30 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed; HairoftheDog; 2Jedismom; Penny1; ecurbh
Who's up for chatting tonight? I mean, we're all without anything better to do on a Friday night, right.... or am I just a loser?
2,878 posted on 04/19/2002 5:13:14 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Hi Jen! - Hi All! - I'm a loser too I guess... I will be around. I just got home a bit ago. Then madness struck me. Now I am in a uncontrolled chain reaction of rampant change.

Basically, in the middle of everything else that has been going on, my printer started p*ssing me off this morning and I couldn't print one page without it jamming. I wanted to huck it through the window. So I went to Office Depot and ordered the best office-grade all-in one printer-fax-scanner-copier they had. $500. It is too big and too nice for the little rinky-dink stand I had my old printer on, so I bought a new credenza to put it on. Which meant I had to move my desk and my computer, which meant I had to disconnect everything. I just got it all cleaned behind and moved and put back together. I still can't print, because the printer wont be here till the 23rd, but when it gets here I will be ready!

2,879 posted on 04/19/2002 5:50:08 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog; JenB; Overtaxed; 2Jedismom
Sorry I missed chat, I was so tired after work today, I crashed as soon as I got home.

Hope you all had fun.

I am so glad LOTR got Hugo nominations--although it doesn't surprise me. If they hadn't, there might have been war, lol. ;)

Thought you all might be interested in this article from Cinematographer Magazine, about the different methods they used in the movie. I thought the discussion about lighting was particularly interesting, and they even mention the lights in Galadriel's eyes that we were talking about the other day:

American Cinematographer Magazine

Here's the bit about Galadriel's eyes:

To achieve a glowing, luminescent quality for the Elvish Queen Galadriel (Cate Blanchett), Lesnie used soft light exposed at key. Lesnie also extended Jackson's predilection for eyelights. "Peter likes to see eyelights, and to create that effect we usually used 'wands,' which were two 2-foot Kino Flo tubes taped together. In close quarters, these wands are ideal and virtually instantaneous tools; they have four intensity levels, they're cool and very flexible, and they're perfect for handholding. For the character of Galadriel, however, I wanted to create a special eyelight, because Tolkien describes her by saying 'no sign of age was upon her, unless it were in the depths of her eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.' In order to achieve that quality, we created the 'Galadrilight,' which was simply a rig of hundreds of Christmas-tree lights mounted next to the camera. This technique placed many reflections in Cate's eyes, creating a wonderful otherworldliness. Her skin is so luminescent that sometimes I didn't have to use any fill, because the Galadrilight was doing the work."

2,880 posted on 04/19/2002 11:13:41 PM PDT by Penny1
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