Finally, an honest Abe

New York Post ^ | Nov. 25, 2012 | Harold Holzer

[T Ruth]

Director Steven Spielberg, whom I introduced last week [in 2012] at Gettysburg at ceremonies marking the 149th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln’s greatest speech, said he was deeply humbled to be delivering an address on that history-making spot.

***

… Daniel Day-Lewis gives the definitive portrayal of our time, perhaps ever, of Honest Abe.

For people like me, who have spent their lives studying Abraham Lincoln, the film is chilling — as if he’s really come to life.

Day-Lewis does it by avoiding the traps most Lincoln actors fall into, the stoic, “Hall of Presidents”-esque stereotype that probably most Americans imagine.

There are no moving pictures of Lincoln, no recordings of his voice. But after his death, everyone was Lincoln’s best friend, and there are descriptions of everything from his accent to his gait.

The most important thing is the voice. Far from having a stentorian, Gregory Peck-like bass, Lincoln’s was a high, piercing tenor. Those who attended his speeches even described it as shrill and unpleasant for the first 10 minutes, until he got warmed up (or his endless stories managed to cow them into submission).

***

Few great people are appreciated in their time. And it’s good to remember that, no matter how right the decisions seem now, they were hard-fought then.

“I wanted — impossibly — to bring Lincoln back from his sleep of one-and-a-half centuries,” Steven Spielberg said at Gettysburg, “even if only for two-and-one-half hours, and even if only in a cinematic dream.”

***

Harold Holzer is one of the country’s leading authorities on Abraham Lincoln. ...

[At the end of the article Holzer gives thumbnail reviews of all prior Lincoln films, ranking them from worst to best, which Holzer considers to be Spielberg’s.]

[Ditto]

Without War, the North was screwed. War was the only thing that could stop the South from implementing a future that benefitted it, and cut off the money to the North.

So is that why the South started the shooting down in Charleston… because they wanted peace?

[DiogenesLamp]

In many instances the same areas.....and this comes from the spawn of the same people.

I keep pointing this out. All the d@mn liberals today still come from the same areas of the country that were strongly Republican in the 1860s. The Republicans were the *LIBERALS* in that era.

1860 Republican's political ideology looks a lot more like Modern Democrat's political ideology. They all favored huge taxes, government spending, and "social change."

B) when several prominent New Englanders openly admitted that they had put up the money/sponsored the terrorist attack, their states refused to prosecute them or extradite them.

Just like modern wealthy liberals were financing ANTIFA, and the fiery protests in 2020. For some reason, pallet loads of bricks kept showing up at protests.

[DiogenesLamp]

So is that why the South started the shooting down in Charleston… because they wanted peace?

Lincoln started the shooting in Charleston. Even Major Anderson admitted that. You should read his letters before he evacuated the fort. He clearly states Lincoln's plan would start the war, and he was horrified about it.

[Ditto]

They did what Lincoln did when he imposed an income tax to fight the war despite the fact that the constitution did not allow it.

The tax as Congress wrote it was not considered unconstitutional then. There were no legal challenges to it. And as a matter of fact, the Confederate Congress enacted an income tax as well. Was it “unconstitutional?”

[FLT-bird]

The tax as Congress wrote it was not considered unconstitutional then. There were no legal challenges to it. And as a matter of fact, the Confederate Congress enacted an income tax as well. Was it “unconstitutional?”

LOL! It was unconstitutional. The SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional. There is a reason why nobody did it before and nobody did it again until passage of the 16th amendment. Did the Confederate government do things that violated the Confederate constitution in order to fight the war? Yes!

[Ditto]

Lincoln started the shooting in Charleston. Even Major Anderson admitted that. You should read his letters before he evacuated the fort. He clearly states Lincoln's plan would start the war, and he was horrified about it.

Ok… it’s put up or shut up time. I have studied the Civil War for years and I have never seen these Anderson letters. Why don’t you post them so all of us can see them.

I know Lincoln wrote Governor Pickens when he sent the resupply ships south promising they would only resupply Andersons detachment unless they were fired upon. Well the Confederates didn’t wait for the ships to get there. They opened fire first. Lincoln didn’t shoot first, the Confederates did.

[Ditto]

LOL! It was unconstitutional. The SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional.

Really? When. Did Lincoln ignore the Supreme Court? When did the Court rule the income tax unconstitutional. And as I recall, Justice Roger Taney, who hated Lincoln with a passion, was Chief Justice then, and his court never took up the case. Why was that?

[FLT-bird]

Really? When. Did Lincoln ignore the Supreme Court? When did the Court rule the income tax unconstitutional.

The SCOTUS ruled every income tax unconstitutional prior to passage of the 16th amendment. Federal income taxes were unconstitutional based on Article I, Section 9, Clause 4 of the Constitution.

[FLT-bird]

As for when Lincoln ignored the Court. See ex parte merryman.

[Ditto]

The SCOTUS ruled every income tax unconstitutional prior to passage of the 16th amendment.

When?

[FLT-bird]

One case was Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co. in 1895.

The income tax imposed during the war was repealed after it. No other attempts at imposing an income tax prior to the 16th amendment were made.

[Ditto]

As for when Lincoln ignored the Court. See ex parte merryman.

One word answer… Nonacquiescence

Oh, he didn’t ignore the Court. The “Court” never even heard the case. It was only Taney!

[Ditto]

So “Lincoln’s” income tax was never declared unconstitutional.

[DiogenesLamp]

Lincoln started the shooting in Charleston. Even Major Anderson admitted that. You should read his letters before he evacuated the fort. He clearly states Lincoln's plan would start the war, and he was horrified about it.

Ok… it’s put up or shut up time. I have studied the Civil War for years and I have never seen these Anderson letters. Why don’t you post them so all of us can see them.

There was a time some years ago when I kept a series of bookmarks for ready reference to find documents like this, but over time, the links went dead, and I have changed computers, so it's no longer so easy to find things I used to have.

But I remembered enough of a snippet of what he said that a google search found a bit more of it. Here is that snippet, and with it you can likely find the rest of the letter. I believe it was written April 8, 1861, but i'm not sure.

Major Robert Anderson

"We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in this war, which I see is to be thus commenced."

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You do the legwork on this.

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I know Lincoln wrote Governor Pickens when he sent the resupply ships south promising they would only resupply Andersons detachment unless they were fired upon.

"Unless resisted."

"Resisted" could mean anything and it was left to Captain Mercer to decide what "resisted" is supposed to mean in context.

And given they had strung chains across the channel and set up cannons to blow anyone up trying to move through it, I think "resisted" is already baked into the cake.

[DiogenesLamp]

Never mind. I found it.

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~billie0w/books/fort_sumter/Fort_Sumter.html#28

[FLT-bird]

One word answer… Nonacquiescence

One word. Wrong. Nonacquiescence is when an administrative agency to not follow a court ruling when there are subsequent and similar cases to maintain consistency. This was a president and the federal courts have consistently ruled that a president may not suspend habeas corpus - particularly when the courts are functioning.

Oh, he didn’t ignore the Court. The “Court” never even heard the case. It was only Taney!

Oh, yes he did ignore the federal courts. Taney was a SCOTUS judge riding circuit as was the practice in those days.

[FLT-bird]

So “Lincoln’s” income tax was never declared unconstitutional.

So no federal income tax had ever been held to be constitutional prior to the 16th amendment. By the way, what court declared the Confederate Government's tariff unconstitutional?

[Rockingham]

The Walker Tariff reduced rates and was in effect until the Tariff of 1857, which reduced rates further. The Morrill Tariff raised rates in 1861, signed into law by President Buchannan just before Lincoln's inauguration.

The Morrill Tariff had been bottled up in the Senate by Southern states and would not have passed except for secession. Blaming secession on the Morrill Tariff confuses cause and effect.

Go read the articles of secession by the Southern states. They do not refer to tariffs but repeatedly refer to the protection of slavery as the reason for secession.

With some justification, slaveholders feared that abolitionist agitations would inspire slaves to flee North or to revolt. Slavery required Southern whites to support a strong apparatus of enforcement, control, and repression lest the large slave population turn on them.

[Ditto]

So no federal income tax had ever been held to be constitutional prior to the 16th amendment.

But was the Civil War income tax declared unconstitutional?

By the way, what court declared the Confederate Government's tariff unconstitutional?

I didn’t say it was. I just pointed out the Confederates had an income tax. Kind of like those 25% tariffs they had. ;~))

[Ditto]

Oh, yes he did ignore the federal courts. Taney was a SCOTUS judge riding circuit as was the practice in those days.

You need to discover what “ex parts” means. And the order Taney issued (ex parte) was not issued to Lincoln, it was issued to the Commanding officer at Fort McHenry where Merryman was being held. So in actuality it was that Army officer who told Taney to shove his order where the Confederate sun don’t shine, not Lincoln. ;~))