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To: All

Actually the most likely birth date for Jesus is something like Feb 25, 4 B.C. ... shepherds would be in the fields during lambing season which is late winter and early spring, and some Roman monk made a four to six year error in backdating to the death of Herod (which must have been after Jesus was born) resulting in the year 1 A.D. being actually four or five years earlier.

The reason we have Christmas in late December is that it was substituted for the pagan feast of Saturnalia at that time in the Roman calendar.

The idea that Jesus was born on Dec 25th with snow gently falling is basically a cultural adaptation to medieval Europe where that might have been quite frequent; snow rarely falls in Bethlehem at any point and less likely in late February than in December or January.

Merry Saturnalia!


22 posted on 12/25/2025 10:23:52 AM PST by Peter ODonnell (Do not go gentle into that good night; rage, rage against the dying of the light -- Dylan Thomas)
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To: All

In case anyone thought it should be December 25, zero A.D., in fact historians ignore the possible year zero and date events in either 1 A.D. or 1 B.C.; astronomy confusingly adopted a year zero so if you consult an astronomical table and see an event in any year B.C. then to a historian that would be one year less (earlier), so for example if there was a planetary conjunction claimed as possible “star of David” that an astronomer said was in 3 B.C., to a historian that would be in 4 B.C. ... anything that happened in the year zero would be in 1 B.C. for historical reference.

I have read estimates of the birth of Jesus between 6 and 3 B.C. based on what is actually known about the historical context (most important of those being the actual timing of the relevant Roman census and the later death of Herod).

By the year 1 A.D. when historians would say the first Dec 25th took place, Jesus was probably approaching his fifth or even sixth birthday. This has a practical significance in that estimates of the year of the crucifixion (30 and 33 A.D. are the two most quoted) are probably more accurate which means Jesus was approaching forty at that time, not in his early thirties. That gives a longer interval of time possible for His active ministry since it would appear that the spiritual baptism was an event in his young adult years, if He were 21 for example that would have been in 16-17 A.D. not 21 A.D. ... a full decade and a half before the crucifixion.


24 posted on 12/25/2025 10:32:57 AM PST by Peter ODonnell (Do not go gentle into that good night; rage, rage against the dying of the light -- Dylan Thomas)
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To: Peter ODonnell
The reason we have Christmas in late December is that it was substituted for the pagan feast of Saturnalia at that time in the Roman calendar.

Oh, here you are.

I was looking for the post of that individual who insists on sticking his beak into a Christmas thread and making the unfounded (but, oft-repeated) claim that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. (You didn't let me down!)

It's well-documented that even in the first century, Christmas was celebrated on 12/25. We can actually use Scripture to pinpoint this date as well, although this is a bit more complex.

26 posted on 12/25/2025 10:39:05 AM PST by Captain Walker ("Justice exalteth a nation: but sin maketh nations miserable." – Proverbs 14:34)
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To: Peter ODonnell

Jerusalem isn’t Europe or America. Lambing would be when the new grass comes in and that happens after it starts raining in late November. The new grass would be growing in December and starting to whither in the spring.
“the principal lamb­ing season of Awassi ewes .... in ... Israel in Decem­ber-January.” https://www.fao.org/4/p8550e/P8550E01.htm

Saturnalia as the reason for Christmas date is a modern myth.
“The early church fathers believed that Jesus was conceived on Passover and born nine months later. However, they differed in their dates for Passover, which is calculated on the lunar calendar. This resulted in a variety of dates for Christmas, one of which was December 25.”
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/new-testament/december-25th-and-christmas/

Merry Christmas!


40 posted on 12/25/2025 3:17:15 PM PST by Varda
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