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--> YouTube-Generated Transcript <--
0:00 · to Egypt now. The country working to
0:02 · showcase its own historic artifacts,
0:05 · many of which are found in museums in
0:07 · other parts of the world. Those in
0:09 · Egypt's possession, though, finally have
0:11 · a museum with a space to house and
0:14 · display them properly. The Grand
0:16 · Egyptian Museum fully opens its doors
0:19 · next week. Have a look.
0:23 · The Grand Egyptian Museum sets a new
0:25 · standard. In the entry hall looms the
0:27 · statue of Ramses II, the great pharaoh
0:30 · who ruled over the land along the Nile
0:32 · for decades. The 11 me tall piece weighs
0:35 · 80 tons and is 3,200 years old. 100,000
0:40 · artifacts bear testimony to the
0:42 · different periods of millennia of
0:43 · cultural history.
0:47 · What's really spectacular is how you can
0:49 · look at things that you couldn't before
0:51 · because there simply wasn't enough space
0:53 · in the Egyptian museum at Tahir Square.
0:56 · [Music]
0:58 · The new landmark of Egypt lies right
1:00 · next to an old one, the pyramids of
1:02 · Giza. For the first time since the
1:05 · excavation work by Egyptologist Howard
1:07 · Carter, all treasures from Toutin
1:10 · Common's tomb have been assembled at a
1:12 · single location, an astounding 5,600
1:15 · artifacts, including Tuten Common's
1:18 · world famouser mask. This iconic piece
1:21 · is protected by strict security
1:23 · measures, but visitors should get as
1:25 · close as possible, explains the
1:27 · organizer.
1:28 · The lighting of the mask makes it look
1:30 · as though it were floating, meaning it's
1:32 · actually not important how thick the
1:33 · glass is or what its ed. Just the
1:36 · artifact itself takes center stage.
1:40 · The Grand Egyptian is more than a
1:42 · museum. It's a place of research and a
1:44 · lab for conservators.
1:49 · Egypt is showing it's able to really do
1:51 · great things in term of science,
1:52 · culture, and curation.
1:56 · Egyptology was a science basically
1:58 · restricted to the northern hemisphere
2:00 · for many many years, many decades. Of
2:03 · course, that is in part an account of
2:05 · the situation in Egypt at the time, but
2:08 · things have also been shifting for many
2:09 · years
2:12 · and tourism figures are set to reflect
2:14 · that trend. Egypt expects 18 million
2:17 · visitors this year. We're anticipating
2:19 · that this will increase definitely the
2:23 · numbers of tourists coming to Egypt by
2:27 · at least 10% or 20%.
2:32 · There are collections of Egyptian
2:34 · artifacts all over the world, but the
2:36 · Grand Egyptian Museum is a new symbol of
2:39 · national identity.
2:42 · And
2:42 · now there is an ongoing dispute between
2:44 · Egypt and Germany. It's about the world
2:46 · famous bust of the ancient Egyptian
2:49 · queen Nefertiti.
2:51 · German archaeologists discovered it in
2:53 · 1912 and took it from Egypt to Germany.
2:56 · It's been on display in Berlin for more
2:59 · than a hundred years now. Egypt wants it
3:02 · back and some say Egypt should get it
3:04 · back.
3:07 · Now for more this dispute, let's bring
3:09 · in Sebastian Connard. He's a professor
3:11 · of modern history at the fry visited
3:13 · Berlin and author of the queen
3:15 · Nefertiti's global career. Now,
3:18 · Professor Conrad, the Grand Egyptian
3:20 · Museum finally opens its doors and has
3:22 · reignited Egypt's calls for Germany to
3:25 · return Nefertiti. Why does this
3:27 · 3,000year-old bast still stir such
3:30 · strong emotions?
3:34 · Yeah, thanks. Um, it's true. Nefertiti
3:37 · is is famous is famous around the world.
3:40 · Uh but it has a particular value for
3:43 · Egyptians. Egyptians from all walks of
3:46 · life. Um but then especially also for
3:49 · the Egyptian
3:51 · regime, the um current regime as the
3:54 · regimes before. They like to link
3:57 · Egypt's present day identity with
4:00 · um the ancient heritage with the
4:03 · empire, the pharaohs, the pyramids. It's
4:06 · part of a national form of
4:08 · self-representation.
4:10 · Now, you you've said that Germany's
4:12 · claim to this bust, even though it was
4:15 · discovered by by a German archaeologist,
4:18 · is at least very doubtful and that you
4:20 · can understand Egypt's wish to see uh
4:23 · the see it in Cairo. Why is this dispute
4:27 · so complicated?
4:30 · Yeah. Well, it's um it has a legal and a
4:33 · moral dimension. Um legally the bus was
4:37 · transferred to Germany according to the
4:39 · laws of the time. There is no real doubt
4:42 · about that. Even the Egyptian side does
4:45 · not dispute that fact. In fact, already
4:48 · in the 1920s, essentially the Egyptians
4:50 · began to say, "Yes, legally the bus
4:55 · moved to Germany, but morally it should
4:58 · have remained in Egypt." Um now you know
5:01 · we can I mean there are lots of
5:03 · speculations about the particular moment
5:05 · in which the fines were partitioned.
5:09 · Half of it went to Berlin, half of it
5:11 · remained in Egypt. But the most
5:14 · important aspect probably is much more
5:16 · fundamental which is that the laws of
5:19 · the time were part of an imperialist
5:22 · world order. Today no country would
5:25 · allow that half of the fines would be
5:28 · transferred to the country of the
5:30 · excavators. Uh in fact even Egypt
5:33 · discontinued this practice about 10
5:35 · years later. So the question now is is
5:38 · less one of legality but more one of
5:41 · legitimacy.
5:43 · Now the former Egyptian antiquities
5:46 · chief Zahi Hawas is demanding a full
5:49 · repatriation. You've suggested a middle
5:51 · ground solution. international
5:53 · stewardship or a rotating display. Uh
5:57 · could that be a pract practical
5:59 · compromise that both sides could agree
6:01 · on?
6:04 · It's probably a compromise that no side
6:07 · will agree on, I'm afraid. I think it
6:09 · would be it would be a solution with a
6:12 · lot of appeal. It would turn Nefertiti
6:15 · into a world heritage object in its very
6:18 · literal sense. Um both sides however b
6:22 · both Berlin and also Cairo um insist on
6:27 · full ownership. The question today I
6:30 · think is whether physical ownership
6:33 · whether the question of property can
6:35 · really be at the heart of the discussion
6:37 · or whether we need to look for new ways
6:39 · of um dealing with cultural objects that
6:43 · have a life that goes way beyond Egypt
6:47 · and Berlin.
6:50 · Now, finally, with uh the new Grand
6:52 · Egyptian Museum now open uh and Cairo's
6:56 · diplomatic pressure building, do you
6:59 · think that uh the German government will
7:01 · eventually have to reconsider its
7:04 · stance?
7:07 · All right, that's is that's a very good
7:09 · question. I at the moment it's one
7:12 · cannot predict such an outcome. I think
7:14 · what will happen is that in the coming
7:16 · years the pressure will certainly
7:19 · increase the pressure on the German
7:21 · government ultimately my sense would be
7:24 · that the return if you want to call it
7:27 · that the return of the bus is only
7:29 · possible if at some point the German
7:32 · side
7:34 · thinks it in their own interest to
7:36 · return it similar to what happened with
7:38 · the binian bronzes. If one convinced the
7:41 · German side that they want to give it
7:44 · back, that I think is the moment when it
7:46 · may happen. Whether that will happen,
7:48 · whether I will live to see it is very
7:50 · unsure.
7:52 · We'll keep watching how this dispute
7:55 · develops. Thank you very much, Professor
7:57 · Zastan Conrad from the Fryon Visit
8:00 · Berlin. Thank you.
8:02 · Thank you.

--> YouTube-Generated Transcript <--
0:00	·	to Egypt now. The country working to
0:02	·	showcase its own historic artifacts,
0:05	·	many of which are found in museums in
0:07	·	other parts of the world. Those in
0:09	·	Egypt's possession, though, finally have
0:11	·	a museum with a space to house and
0:14	·	display them properly. The Grand
0:16	·	Egyptian Museum fully opens its doors
0:19	·	next week. Have a look.
0:23	·	The Grand Egyptian Museum sets a new
0:25	·	standard. In the entry hall looms the
0:27	·	statue of Ramses II, the great pharaoh
0:30	·	who ruled over the land along the Nile
0:32	·	for decades. The 11 me tall piece weighs
0:35	·	80 tons and is 3,200 years old. 100,000
0:40	·	artifacts bear testimony to the
0:42	·	different periods of millennia of
0:43	·	cultural history.
0:47	·	What's really spectacular is how you can
0:49	·	look at things that you couldn't before
0:51	·	because there simply wasn't enough space
0:53	·	in the Egyptian museum at Tahir Square.
0:56	·	[Music]
0:58	·	The new landmark of Egypt lies right
1:00	·	next to an old one, the pyramids of
1:02	·	Giza. For the first time since the
1:05	·	excavation work by Egyptologist Howard
1:07	·	Carter, all treasures from Toutin
1:10	·	Common's tomb have been assembled at a
1:12	·	single location, an astounding 5,600
1:15	·	artifacts, including Tuten Common's
1:18	·	world famouser mask. This iconic piece
1:21	·	is protected by strict security
1:23	·	measures, but visitors should get as
1:25	·	close as possible, explains the
1:27	·	organizer.
1:28	·	The lighting of the mask makes it look
1:30	·	as though it were floating, meaning it's
1:32	·	actually not important how thick the
1:33	·	glass is or what its ed. Just the
1:36	·	artifact itself takes center stage.
1:40	·	The Grand Egyptian is more than a
1:42	·	museum. It's a place of research and a
1:44	·	lab for conservators.
1:49	·	Egypt is showing it's able to really do
1:51	·	great things in term of science,
1:52	·	culture, and curation.
1:56	·	Egyptology was a science basically
1:58	·	restricted to the northern hemisphere
2:00	·	for many many years, many decades. Of
2:03	·	course, that is in part an account of
2:05	·	the situation in Egypt at the time, but
2:08	·	things have also been shifting for many
2:09	·	years
2:12	·	and tourism figures are set to reflect
2:14	·	that trend. Egypt expects 18 million
2:17	·	visitors this year. We're anticipating
2:19	·	that this will increase definitely the
2:23	·	numbers of tourists coming to Egypt by
2:27	·	at least 10% or 20%.
2:32	·	There are collections of Egyptian
2:34	·	artifacts all over the world, but the
2:36	·	Grand Egyptian Museum is a new symbol of
2:39	·	national identity.
2:42	·	And
2:42	·	now there is an ongoing dispute between
2:44	·	Egypt and Germany. It's about the world
2:46	·	famous bust of the ancient Egyptian
2:49	·	queen Nefertiti.
2:51	·	German archaeologists discovered it in
2:53	·	1912 and took it from Egypt to Germany.
2:56	·	It's been on display in Berlin for more
2:59	·	than a hundred years now. Egypt wants it
3:02	·	back and some say Egypt should get it
3:04	·	back.
3:07	·	Now for more this dispute, let's bring
3:09	·	in Sebastian Connard. He's a professor
3:11	·	of modern history at the fry visited
3:13	·	Berlin and author of the queen
3:15	·	Nefertiti's global career. Now,
3:18	·	Professor Conrad, the Grand Egyptian
3:20	·	Museum finally opens its doors and has
3:22	·	reignited Egypt's calls for Germany to
3:25	·	return Nefertiti. Why does this
3:27	·	3,000year-old bast still stir such
3:30	·	strong emotions?
3:34	·	Yeah, thanks. Um, it's true. Nefertiti
3:37	·	is is famous is famous around the world.
3:40	·	Uh but it has a particular value for
3:43	·	Egyptians. Egyptians from all walks of
3:46	·	life. Um but then especially also for
3:49	·	the Egyptian
3:51	·	regime, the um current regime as the
3:54	·	regimes before. They like to link
3:57	·	Egypt's present day identity with
4:00	·	um the ancient heritage with the
4:03	·	empire, the pharaohs, the pyramids. It's
4:06	·	part of a national form of
4:08	·	self-representation.
4:10	·	Now, you you've said that Germany's
4:12	·	claim to this bust, even though it was
4:15	·	discovered by by a German archaeologist,
4:18	·	is at least very doubtful and that you
4:20	·	can understand Egypt's wish to see uh
4:23	·	the see it in Cairo. Why is this dispute
4:27	·	so complicated?
4:30	·	Yeah. Well, it's um it has a legal and a
4:33	·	moral dimension. Um legally the bus was
4:37	·	transferred to Germany according to the
4:39	·	laws of the time. There is no real doubt
4:42	·	about that. Even the Egyptian side does
4:45	·	not dispute that fact. In fact, already
4:48	·	in the 1920s, essentially the Egyptians
4:50	·	began to say, "Yes, legally the bus
4:55	·	moved to Germany, but morally it should
4:58	·	have remained in Egypt." Um now you know
5:01	·	we can I mean there are lots of
5:03	·	speculations about the particular moment
5:05	·	in which the fines were partitioned.
5:09	·	Half of it went to Berlin, half of it
5:11	·	remained in Egypt. But the most
5:14	·	important aspect probably is much more
5:16	·	fundamental which is that the laws of
5:19	·	the time were part of an imperialist
5:22	·	world order. Today no country would
5:25	·	allow that half of the fines would be
5:28	·	transferred to the country of the
5:30	·	excavators. Uh in fact even Egypt
5:33	·	discontinued this practice about 10
5:35	·	years later. So the question now is is
5:38	·	less one of legality but more one of
5:41	·	legitimacy.
5:43	·	Now the former Egyptian antiquities
5:46	·	chief Zahi Hawas is demanding a full
5:49	·	repatriation. You've suggested a middle
5:51	·	ground solution. international
5:53	·	stewardship or a rotating display. Uh
5:57	·	could that be a pract practical
5:59	·	compromise that both sides could agree
6:01	·	on?
6:04	·	It's probably a compromise that no side
6:07	·	will agree on, I'm afraid. I think it
6:09	·	would be it would be a solution with a
6:12	·	lot of appeal. It would turn Nefertiti
6:15	·	into a world heritage object in its very
6:18	·	literal sense. Um both sides however b
6:22	·	both Berlin and also Cairo um insist on
6:27	·	full ownership. The question today I
6:30	·	think is whether physical ownership
6:33	·	whether the question of property can
6:35	·	really be at the heart of the discussion
6:37	·	or whether we need to look for new ways
6:39	·	of um dealing with cultural objects that
6:43	·	have a life that goes way beyond Egypt
6:47	·	and Berlin.
6:50	·	Now, finally, with uh the new Grand
6:52	·	Egyptian Museum now open uh and Cairo's
6:56	·	diplomatic pressure building, do you
6:59	·	think that uh the German government will
7:01	·	eventually have to reconsider its
7:04	·	stance?
7:07	·	All right, that's is that's a very good
7:09	·	question. I at the moment it's one
7:12	·	cannot predict such an outcome. I think
7:14	·	what will happen is that in the coming
7:16	·	years the pressure will certainly
7:19	·	increase the pressure on the German
7:21	·	government ultimately my sense would be
7:24	·	that the return if you want to call it
7:27	·	that the return of the bus is only
7:29	·	possible if at some point the German
7:32	·	side
7:34	·	thinks it in their own interest to
7:36	·	return it similar to what happened with
7:38	·	the binian bronzes. If one convinced the
7:41	·	German side that they want to give it
7:44	·	back, that I think is the moment when it
7:46	·	may happen. Whether that will happen,
7:48	·	whether I will live to see it is very
7:50	·	unsure.
7:52	·	We'll keep watching how this dispute
7:55	·	develops. Thank you very much, Professor
7:57	·	Zastan Conrad from the Fryon Visit
8:00	·	Berlin. Thank you.
8:02	·	Thank you.