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To: nickcarraway

[Hey, tiny Vietnam (Back the a pop. of about 50M.) and they kicked China’s butt in 1979. One month and China cried uncle.]


Communist Vietnam’s PR generally outruns reality, and the 1979 skirmish is no exception. Vietnamese propaganda tends to assert that it defeated the US *and* China in pitched battle, such that both ran for their lives in disorder with Vietnamese troops in hot pursuit. The reality is both left under their own steam. China not only left at a deliberate pace, it is alleged by Vietnam to have butchered 100K Vietnamese civilians in the 6 week clash after being ambushed by individuals - including women and children - in civilian clothing.

https://www.historynet.com/war-of-the-dragons-the-sino-vietnamese-war-1979/
[Neither side advertised its casualties. The PLA admitted to 7,000 dead and 15,000 wounded, but Western estimates ran as high as 28,000 Chinese dead and 43,000 wounded. Vietnam did not release casualty figures other than widely publicizing 100,000 Vietnamese civilian deaths. The PLA’s “scorched-earth” campaign that left a swath of destruction in its path gave some credence to Vietnam’s claimed civilian toll.]

Not only did Chinese units leave at a deliberate pace, they took the time to dismantle entire Soviet origin plants, moved them to China. A military force that runs pell mell for the border lacks even the time to vandalize enemy infrastructure, let alone take it apart and move it across the border. The recognition of its inability to hold numerically superior Chinese forces despite the possession of late model Russian gear has led Vietnam to be conciliatory towards China in a way it is not with its neighbors to the west and south, with which it also has territorial disputes.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/03/09/archives/china-quitting-vietnam-leaving-a-trail-of-debris-message-about.html#:~:text=China%20Quitting%20Vietnam%2C%20Leaving%20a,debris%2Dmessage%2Dabout.html
[BANGKOK, Thailand, March 8 — Chinese troops are withdrawing from Vietnam and are destroying bridges, rail and road facilities and other installations as they niove toward the border, Western intellience analysts said today.

It was the first confirmation that the Chinese had begun the withdrawal they had announced lastweekend.

The analysts’ reports were supported by broadcasts from Hanoi that continued to accuse China of acts of war, the burning and looting of property and the destruction of some houses and a hospital.

The analysts said that Vietnamese troops were not interfering with the retreat. In the analysts’ view, Vietnam’s forces and supplies have been depleted beyond the point where Hanoi can offer significant resistance or even pursue the retreating Chinese.

However, the analysts reported that a major movement of troops, equipment and supplies was under way from the south by road, rail, air and sea.

The analysts believe that the provincial Vietnamese troops, who bore the brunt of the fighting that began Feb. 17, have suffered such heavy casualties and have become so disorganized as a result of the invasion that they had to be replaced with regular troops, even if the border war is drawing to an end.

During the height of the battle for the provincial capital of Lang Son, captured by Chinese troops last weekend, Vietnam threw one regular division, as well as armor and artillery support units, into the struggle. But they had no more success than the provincial irregulars in keeping the Chinese from taking the town.

It was after their victory at Lang Son, never conceded by Hanoi, that the Chinese announced their intention to withdraw. Analysts interpreted this as a message to Vietnam that China had the ability to seize any military target in Vietnam.

In view of Vietnam’s intensive resupplying and remanning of the border zone, the analysts said that, whatever the outcome of the fighting, China had achieved a long‐term diversion of Vietnamese manpower, supplies, attention and energy to the border region.]


It’s not that the Chinese were particularly skilled. But they had a numbers advantage, copies of old Soviet gear that were good enough, given superior numbers, and inexhaustible resources relative to Vietnam.

And without the restraint vis-a-vis civilians exhibited by US political leaders, China’s army in Vietnam was able to wage a war of extermination, to kill everyone it saw, much as Greek and Roman armies often did. They did it for much the same reasons - fighting guerrillas is resource intensive, can impoverish the conqueror. The upshot is that what would have worked in the face of US restraint failed against a China willing to kill every last man, woman and child in its area of operations.


17 posted on 08/17/2025 10:07:35 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room)
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To: Zhang Fei
I am not going by Vietnam PR. China pulled out after one month without completing it's objectives. First of all, Vietnam remained in Cambodia for another decade, after they kicked out China's client, the Khmer Rouge. Also, they didn't like that Vietnam was in the USSR's orbit, not theirs.

Of course, Vietnam did realize the USSR was a feckless ally, but China couldn't control that.

China is an inward-facing country. They've never been good at projecting their power outward.

18 posted on 08/17/2025 10:14:34 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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