Posted on 07/25/2025 8:28:31 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
Russia is far weaker than us, but they are fully capable of massively expanding beyond their current state (7.1% GDP currently on their war machine, no total population mobilization), and they can take it all the way through nuclear war if they are threatened to the point where this becomes an existential threat to them.
Your reasoning is typical for people that are insulated.
Let's hope there are enough rational minds left to where this does not become personal for us.
That’s all Russia can do given the time, money, and industry.
Even the US, in Iraq 2003 - 2007 was throwing M113’s, armor kits on rag-top HMMWV’s, and fielding newer up-armored HMMWV’s early on into a war zone where these vehicles were ill suited (big mine and IED threat).
BUT THAT’S ALL WE HAD A BIG PREEXISTING SUPPLY OF AND COULD UPGRADE QUICKLY or COULD BEGIN PRODUCING RAPIDLY.
We had lot’s of HMMWV’s with added armor kits (many even makeshift and locally made) and newer up-armored HMMWV’s (those were designed to at least carry the added weight and had the power to move it). But none of these were ever really a good solution.
These were mere stop-gap solutions where we faced a huge threat and they were better than rag-top (998, 1097) vehicles susceptible to even small arms fire. I took my doors off because the rubber door provided zero protection while limiting the use of my weapon and ability to get out quickly.
Eventually, we began fielding significant numbers of vehicles specifically suited for the threat we faced: MRAP, Cougar, etc.
But those didn’t really hit the scene until year 5 in the conflict (production started in big numbers around 2007).
Russia faces the same dilemma today.
Something is better than nothing.
The Russians are taking their vast mothballed stockpiles of T72’s and older, BMP’s and BTRs and refurbishing and upgrading them. That’s what a T-90 is, a T72 on steroids. It wasn’t even a good tank in 1986.
It is NOT an ideal solution and many of these armored vehicles are meeting their demise soon after arriving the battlefield.
Do not use an emergency stop-gap solution as your shining guiding light towards some great future for the present day MBT. The present day concept of an MBT is dead, it has been dead for a long time.
The Russians got in trouble early on because we flooded Ukraine with massive amounts of AT weapons like Javelin (~10,000 missiles in the first year) which mauled the Russian mechanized force and contributed to why we are seeing trench warfare today.
(History lesson)
—It was the machine-gun which ended the frontal assault (end of US Civil War, Gatling gun and some other designs) and began the era of trench warfare.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/9e/3f/809e3f80bc60d8b78ebc51f6ee85d154.png
—It was the tank which ended trench warfare and began the era of maneuver warfare end of WWI.
https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2TA01GJ/ww1-world-war-i-tank-driving-over-a-trench-2TA01GJ.jpg
Tell me genius, why do you think we are back to trench warfare today?
Because of the awesome effectiveness of tanks for the Russians? Guess what happened to the Ukrainian armored/mechanized counter offensive in 2023 using our super duper invincible Abrams, British Chally and German Leo’s?
God I hope you weren’t in any decision making capacity while in the military!
Get someone to read my posts and explain them to you, it will save all this bizarre ranting about everything under the sun.
Then let us make it clear to them that this is not and existential threat to them.
Perhaps we do that by scaring the beJesus out of them, hurting them in some horrible horrible way and making sure they know more is waiting. And we are willing.
British tabloid
I saw a young woman with a sign that read: Zelensky: Ukraine Is Not A Piano!
You're dealing with a nation that can push back on us politically and economically on the world stage, they are able to fight a major theater war and take it all the war to mutual nuclear destruction if that's what you seek.
We should have simply extended Russia the same level of respect which we do the PRC/China - i.e. not $hit in their backyard and pretend like that's our right.
We would NEVER offer Taiwan membership to our Pacific security alliances (which exist) since this would cross an obvious line which would likely cause a military reaction by China. No major power wants another playing on their border. Us included.
In fact, our “sphere of influence” and what we see as our backyard is the biggest of any nation on earth. Heck, if a private Chinese company operates a canal 1,900 miles from our border, with 7 nations between us, we see that as a grave threat to us and threaten military action, Panama Canal: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/pentagons-hegseth-visit-panama-canal-after-trump-threatens-take-it-back-2025-04-08/ (What ever happened about those arguments of national “sovereignty” we like to talk about regards Ukraine?)
But then we expect Russia to accept the worlds most powerful nation, with the worlds most powerful military alliance, three of them nuclear powers, with missile defense capabilities, 3 times their military manpower after Russian partial mobilization (5 times before the conflict), to set up bases along their border.
Instead of putting the onus on Russia, ask yourself if this was a prudent decision: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
What we did, is because we no longer see Russia as a near peer.
We saw them as weak (despite our propaganda of them being this huge threat) and gambled with 41,000,000 lives in Ukraine. We expected Russia to acquiesce.
We respect two things: money and military power. If you don't have those, we will do with you whatever we want, and pretend God himself told us to do so for some great moral cause: democracy, human rights, WMD, sovereignty.
BTW- how democratic and what is the human rights situation like in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Morocco, our friends which we back? How has the situation improved in Syria, Iraq, or Libya for the people? Interesting that we have such a high concern for these noble causes like “democracy, human rights, WMD and some nations sovereignty” when these nations have an economic value to us. Fake morality-
Ukraine is just about money and power with us expanding into Russia's sphere of influence, with us acting like God himself anointed us to protect humanity.
Putin skeert. He SKEERT! He quiverin’ in his boots.
As the only remaining super-power (China had not entered the stage yet - still has not fully, about another 10 years), we learned quickly that we can use military force to attain our political and economic objectives.
Our operational tempo increased, not decreased (even though the Soviets and Warsaw Pact were gone).
We became more offensive.
We engage in more expeditionary campaigns.
Then you had 9-11 and our intel service expanded to levels larger than in the Cold War, we aimed them partially inward (Patriot Act), and dramatically changed our MO.
Suddenly kidnapping became an acceptable practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
So did torture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation_techniques
Targeted assignations of foreign leaders.
We once were the good guys (WWII ~ 1993).
But today we are left rationalizing wars where we invaded another nation under false pretenses (WMD), tortured people, kidnap people, they are still in the same mess, even worse off than before we got rid of Saddam, but just don't talk about it. Nope we don't talk about how every one of their elected leaders have asked us to leave, how about 3% of the population there wants us, and yet we stay. That's called occupation, but we simply don't use that language when we talk about ourselves.
Today it's just money and power and all that babble about democracy, human rights, sovereignty, WMD, are faux moralistic rationalizations for the masses. Just like the Soviet and communist cliche's that much of the anti-Russian rhetoric is based on.
Our oil execs were meeting in Libya (literally) when Qaddafi was still alive and being chased. In fact, when our ambassador was killed (he was involved in arms deliveries to rival militias that didn't take to kindly to our meddling but we leave that part out in our democracy and human rights talk) and all that went down, we used some of the private jets from our oil execs to evacuate our folks to Germany for medical care...
Want to know what these wars are about? https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/10092023 We care so much about human rights and democracy in Syria, that we ended up arming radical Islamist groups in Syria. Tell me, what was our national security requirement to get rid of Qaddafi in 2011, he had started working with us? Hint: Libya is an oil producing nation and was aligned with Russia.
How has this war in Ukraine made the average American safer, more free, or wealthy?
Our DoD has become a tool for economic special interests and politicians grand standing, not just to protect our nation and way of life.
It has gotten so perverse that you have Lindsey Graham advocating striking Mexico with drones, missiles and “INVADING” them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4kFxyHALo (this is literally no different than Julius Cesar taking Gaul to boost his fame).
Roosevelt humiliated as Japanese hold out on Pelileu.
Stalin humiliated as Germans counterattack at Kursk.
It does not matter who is “humiliated”. It matters who wins.
Ivan never seems to learn. Looks like as long as the Russians keep making tanks the Ukes will keep blowing them up.
These people are insane.
It isn’t just Russia and North Korea and Poland, and the United States etc., I’m not aware of any nation on earth that has decided that tanks are no longer a part of their forces and that have discontinued creating new models, or manufacturing them, or ordering them because of drones.
Maximoose is one of the many fake posters paid by some shadowy figures who flood the site with Pro-Ukranian trash on a daily basis - same for Fake UMC “Mom”- Timber Tat - Speedy, et al.
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