Posted on 04/23/2025 10:16:09 AM PDT by JoSixChip
Putin gets everything he wants. What are his concessions?
No offense, but would you trust the existence of your country on "robust security guarantees" after being repeatedly invaded by Putin?
Only "serious" security guarantees are NATO or western peacekeepers.
Heres a "robust' security guarantee: Budapest Memorandum which allowed Russia to Crimea in 2014 and led to Putin invading all of Ukraine in 2021.
Third, Ukraine wanted guarantees or assurances of its security once it got rid of the nuclear arms. The Budapest Memorandum provided security assurances.
Unfortunately, Russia has broken virtually all the commitments it undertook in that document. It used military force to seize, and then illegally annex, Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula in early 2014. Russian and Russian proxy forces have waged war for more than five years in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donbas, claiming more than 13,000 lives and driving some two million people from their homes.
Some have argued that, since the United States did not invade Ukraine, it abided by its Budapest Memorandum commitments. True, in a narrow sense. However, when negotiating the security assurances, U.S. officials told their Ukrainian counterparts that, were Russia to violate them, the United States would take a strong interest and respond.
Washington did not promise unlimited support. The Budapest Memorandum contains security “assurances,” not “guarantees.” Guarantees would have implied a commitment of American military force, which NATO members have. U.S. officials made clear that was not on offer. Hence, assurances.
Trump has already said that the US weaponry, logistics support, and aid is ending - regardless of whether this deal is accepted or not. Russia knows that. Without additional incentives they would easily just say great we’ll go in and finish this thing now that the Ukes can’t tell where we’re at for their strikes. Why bicker over who gets Crimea and why cede some portions of land, if you can go in and take the whole thing - which you claim is their intention anyway. Why not just go in and do it all right now, now that the US is getting out of this?
To negotiate, you have to offer something. Yet you say they offered Ukraine practically nothing (even though Ukraine would be GETTING the security guarantees they say they have to have, as well as American presence there as a deterrent to Russian aggression). AND you complain about Putin would be getting everything he wants - even though you also say that what he wants is for Ukraine to stop existing, and this deal does not make Ukraine stop existing. The truth is that Russia could probably make that happen if the US leaves and Russia has no incentive to stop overtaking the rest of Ukraine. By offering Russia something that only costs the US not Ukraine, Trump is using American assets to convince Putin he’s better off with the deal that lets Ukraine continue to exist.
No way in Hell is Trump going to put US military forces in Ukraine and no way in Hell would Putin ever agree to it.
If that’s what you or Zelensky insist on, then you may as well go piss up a rope, because it ain’t happening. Have your war; we will go on our merry way.
You are totally blowing off the idea of there being actual American personnel on the ground in Ukraine. Maybe you missed what Trump did to Hezbollah and Hamas leaders after Americans were killed. Of course, America didn’t do anything to Zelensky after his goons had a US citizen journalist tortured and killed, so I suppose you can be forgiven for thinking we’ve gone soft. Especially since Ukraine also interfered in our elections here and tried to do a coup against the American people’s ability to choose their own leader, who happened to be Trump. Yes, we’ve let Ukraine and Zelensky get away with literal murder.
But Putin understands the kind of strength that Trump has shown. He has been very, very careful to pin a lot of crap on the US Deep State rather than on Trump or the American people. He distinguishes between legitimate government and non-legitimate, and he recognizes that Trump is not playing some Deep State corrupt sanctimonious game. You harm Americans, you will pay. And the courts can’t stop him this time, because it would be a military response like it was against Hamas and Hezbollah leaders.
You might poo-pooh that, but Putin understands Trump’s language.
If Zelensky doesn’t, then it will be his own damned fault when he rejects the best deal he was ever gonna get, all in a bid to start WWIII.
Europe is sending large weapons shipments to Ukraine.
(even though Ukraine would be GETTING the security guarantees they say they have to have
Please, we both know the "security guarantee" which doesn't include anything from the US, would just be weapons shipments from the EU, which is currently happening.
American presence there as a deterrent to Russian aggression)
Yup, civilian workers, who would immediately leave the country would somehow be a deterrent to a Russian invasion.
for Ukraine to stop existing, and this deal does not make Ukraine stop existing.
It pauses the conflict with NO SERIOUS deterrent to a future Russian invasion. That's why Putin is adamant about no western peacekeepers.
Sure, this is definitely the best deal Ukraine can get. Obviously Ukraine disagrees.
You keep saying the same things over and over again. Is this a recording?
It’s been fun, but you just don’t seem either capable or willing to address anything I’ve said. Life is too short to waste it like this.
Have a good war.
Yup, good talking to you.
There's a wide variety of complaints here about Ukraine. The "war monger" crowd are the Code Pink paleocons who blame the US and the West generally for every ill on the planet, just like the hard Left. Their perspective is "If we just stop meddling" everything would be fine, just like Code Pink sings kumbayah. They try to hide their desire to gain domestic political advantage by siding with America's enemies with crocodile tears about those killed in the war, just like Jane Fonda.
There's also a hatred for Ukraine because they see it as a Dem project and somehow blame Ukraine for one of the Trump impeachment attempts, even when it's plain the corrupt party was Biden. My personal view is that Trump shares some of that feeling.
There's also the legitimate complaint about the US bearing too much of the burden for Europe's defense, with which I agree.
You don't think that is part of the point for President Trump. Let Europe handle this? Let them spend the money.
As an American with no respect for any European country, I will tell you, the sooner Europe takes over and starts spending their own money, the faster we will see a peace deal go in place. Europeans are notoriously cheap and when Zelensky sees they have no intention of spending the kind of dough he needs to wage war, he will finally understand what President Trump has been telling him all along.
That is true. Zelensky has so much blood on his hands, but he only seems interested in enriching himself. He doesn’t give the appearance of someone who wants peace.
Heis the stooge of our Deep State. They own him. They pull the strings and he does whatever they tell him to sabotage any hope of integrity and peace.
I think they all know that after the war the crimes the Deep State has committed there for decades will be prosecuted.
As far as I am concerned Ukraine has already declared war on the American people, when their leaders conspired with our Deep State to oust the President we rightfully elected. I also don’t think it’s any coincidence that the assassins who tried to kill Trump all had communications and/or connections with Ukrainian entities.
I say not one red cent should go to them. Not. one. red. cent.
the various trade embargos on japan in the 2 years prior to pearl harbor were expected to force the japanese to attack us. there is actually a large body of declassified material and research on this topic.
but you know that already.
“Heres a “robust’ security guarantee: Budapest Memorandum which allowed Russia to Crimea in 2014 and led to Putin invading all of Ukraine in 2021.”
Will you shut up about this already? The Budapest Amendment was never submitted to the US Senate for ratification. It was a worthless Bill Clinton promise. Even he knew it was worthless and would go down 100-0. Because you’re a Uke foreigner that doesn’t understand our system is not an excuse for you anymore.
So now we forced Japan to attack us?!?!?
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