Posted on 01/28/2025 7:23:00 AM PST by marcusmaximus
NATO caused the invasion of Ukraine.
“This is what you would call historical fiction.”
Which part is fiction??? State your case.
“Leftist Agitprop”
Now inconvenient history becomes agitprop???
Oh, Gawd, another F@#$in moron who discovered the history books aisles in the library and managed to read something.
Yah sure yah don’t want to trace this back to Noah’s ark? It went aground in that region. Surely, there is a relationship.
Started in 2022, so it's been a few years now. Any idea what that means? Different views in words, of course....
"The Istanbul Communique was a dangerously flawed attempt to force Ukraine into submission. By stripping the country of its ability to defend itself and offering no solid protection against future Russian aggression, the treaty would have exposed Ukraine to further exploitation and vulnerability. Even the few concessions, such as the prospect of EU membership, barely masked the overwhelming flaws of the agreement. Ukraine deserves a peace that guarantees its future — not a treaty that sets the stage for further subjugation. The Istanbul Communique was a dangerous fantasy, and Ukraine must continue to fight for peace that truly ensures its survival and sovereignty."One observes that 1) the Communiqué's history is years long, 2) it is a NATO document, and 3) Foreign Affairs opined that it was/is "dangerous fantasy, and Ukraine must continue to fight for peace that truly ensures its survival and sovereignty."The Istanbul Communique: A Blueprint for Ukraine's Capitulation PILPG, 17 December 2024.
"A Hidden History of Diplomacy That Came Up Short — but Holds Lessons for Future Negotiations"
The Talks That Could Have Ended the War in Ukraine Foreign Affairs, 16 April 2024.
The NATO text, if one is interested:
Istanbul Summit Communiqué NATO, 28 June 2024.
The last brings us back to Chakhoyan's final statement in the op-ed.
I rather hope that President Trump hands the mess over to the EU, to be point man in contacting and conducting the opening rounds of diplomacy, or perhaps Mark Rutte's as top dog in NATO. I don't think that will be the case, but it would be most interesting to watch.
Your urge for a modified "Istanbul Summit Communiqué" is interetsing. NATO....
I’m not urging Istanbul. But that’s the framework that President Trump’s team is working with. Ukraine’s top negotiator David Arakhamia who was heavily involved in Istanbul negotiations with Russia attended President Trump’s inauguration.
Your evidence? Your statement is likely telling an abused child they were the cause of their own abuse.
The Russian actions in Ukraine were openly telegraphed for many years by the Kremlin, and they have nothing to do with "imperialist" nonsense. They have everything to do with NATO aggressively advancing, suppressing democracy across the region whenever it led to Russiaphile policy, announcing plans for nuclear missiles and naval bases on the Russian border, and finally sponsoring neo-Nazi terrorist activity against ethnic Russians and fomenting massacres in Ukraine in the wake of anti-Russia, anti-democratic regime change. The Russians said they would not in the end tolerate this, and they simply kept their word.
What are you urging? You've already anted in with "by Easter."
It is amusing to read how "words" are all over the place, geopolitical. But here, specifically....
Trump's plan for Ukraine comes into focus: NATO off the table and concessions on territory Reuters, 4 December 2024My favorite in all this mess was the ISW-adjancent, Washington Post "conservative" Kagan who was busy pinning "defeat" on Trump, not Biden:Toward a Settlement of the Russia-Ukraine War Council on Foreign Relations, 22 January 2025.
Ukraine opens a new front against Russia - flattering Trump CNN, 19 January 2025
Can Trump bring peace to Ukraine? Experts say probably not NPR, 16 January 2025
"If Ukraine falls, it will be hard to spin as anything but a debacle for the United States, and for its president."Yup, before President Trump was inaugurated, and when Biden-Harris was still a government administration.Trump Is Facing a Catastrophic Defeat in Ukraine Robert Kagan, The Atlantic, 7 January 2025.
My point is unlike yours, in this. I won't accuse President Trump of anything, as regards the Ukraine-Russia war, no matter how it ends.
All those players -- Biden, Blinken, Nuland, von der Leyen, Starmer, Scholz, Macron, Rutte and more -- have been "solving" the Ukraine-Russia war for years now. According to some comments on this thread, that means for over twenty years. For others, it means over four years or so.
For me, it means President Trump has not been involved for four full years since the "win" by Biden-Harris cursed this land. And after about one week, President Trump has much to do, with the Ukraine-Russia war being a minor issue compared to our southern border, out-of-control spending, massive and rapidly growing national debt, and Democrat opposition by stalling in his cabinet appointments.
Putin and Zelensky need to deal -- art of some kind of deal -- with all those other names being as visible and participatory as President Trump. All those big-mouthed Europeans. And a whole passel of US Democrats who have been "solving" the Ukraine-Russia war for the last four years.
Or we can send Andrew Chakhoyan to negotiate with David Arakhamia....
I’m not urging Istanbul as originally drafted but I understand why it’s being used as a framework by President Trump’s team and there’s no viable alternative that will end the war before any spring offensives on either side. That’s why I do support a “modified” Istanbul to end the war. Next week will be an important week in Washington DC for US - Ukraine negotiations. Also expect a free for all on jockeying to be Zelensky’s successor. Russia is much weaker now that when Istanbul was drafted and Ukraine is much stronger.
I don’t think so. Ukraine is not NATO, so your analogy fails. NATO instigated the invasion.
Statement - 08 August 1945
Next day - Nagasaki, Japan, hit by an atomic bomb.
I have often wondered how the generational high consumption of alcohol affects the DNA of a civilization. Or drugs in the case of democrats.
Patton was quite the Russophobic bigot. There are plenty of ignorant freepers who would joyfully send all Russians to Concentration Camps to be eradicated.
Russians are famous for be very educated, honest and the most loyal friends anyone could have. Russia has also contributed an incredible amount of culture to the world. Russian writers and composers are too many to list.
Even before the war, Ukraine was the poorest and most corrupt country in Europe, even poorer than Moldova. Ukraine is known for being extremely backwards, with the people living in Third World conditions.
It should absolutely enrage any American that the American people have been paying the pensions of Ukrainians. That outrage infuriates me beyond belief.
Patton was an idiot. Many Asians are infinitely more intelligent than the average European. Europeans aren’t devious?? LMAO.
Was General Patton a homophobe, too?
Putin starting to panic over next week’s negotiations between Trump team and Ukraine in DC. Doesn’t like the Istanbul agreement any more, whining about Zelensky.
You might be back to s.s.d.d., Brit media style.
Channeling Ellie Cook is not the prettiest choice. She's pretty though.
"...next week’s negotiations between Trump team and Ukraine in DC..." requires a source as citation. Have you a source for "next week's negotiations?"
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