Posted on 01/25/2025 6:24:35 AM PST by daniel1212
More so i submit, than that the universe logically testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a being of supreme power and intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter, and laws regarding the same.
https://www.perplexity.ai responded to this by saying:
Your perspective on the relationship between faith, evidence, and the origins of the universe is thoughtful and touches on some of the most profound questions in philosophy, science, and theology. Let's break this down:
Complexity and fine-tuning: You rightly point out the incredible complexity and apparent fine-tuning of the universe. The anthropic principle and the delicate balance of physical constants that allow for life are indeed awe-inspiring and have led many to conclude that there must be a designer.
Faith in naturalism: Your argument that believing in a purely naturalistic origin for this complexity requires faith is valid. Many atheists and naturalists would agree that their position also requires a degree of faith, as we cannot empirically observe or replicate the origin of the universe.
First Cause argument: The idea of a First Cause or Prime Mover has been a cornerstone of theological and philosophical arguments for millennia, from Aristotle to modern-day theologians. It's a logically compelling argument, though it's worth noting that some philosophers and physicists have proposed models that attempt to explain a universe without a beginning.
Design inference: The argument from design, or the teleological argument, which you allude to, has been influential throughout history. While evolutionary theory explains much of the complexity in living organisms, the fine-tuning of physical constants remains a powerful argument for many.
Limits of science: As your linked answer discusses, science indeed has limitations in proving or disproving the existence of God. This is partly because God, by most definitions, would exist outside the natural world that science is equipped to study.
Your position highlights the important point that both theistic and atheistic worldviews require some degree of faith or assumptions beyond what can be empirically proven. This underscores the importance of philosophical reasoning alongside scientific inquiry in grappling with these ultimate questions. It's a complex and nuanced topic, and your thoughtful approach to it encourages deeper consideration of these fundamental questions about existence, causality, and the nature of the universe.
There’s nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.
The next big question.
What does God want?
Psalm 14:1.
Amen 🙏🏻!
bookmark
People interested in this should check out Stephen Meyers’ book called “The Return of the God Hypothesis.” Meyers argues that that science is now providing a lot of evidence for the existence of God. For example, how do you explain the machine like structures (gears, wheels, intergraded circuits, etc.) you find in cells? Secondly, the universe is too young to have this high degree of order to arise through accident or randomness.
The support and creation of life depends/depended on the supernatural intervention of God over nature, ie intelligent design.
Miller I be,eive it was, tried to claim that blood clotting, necessary for sustaining life, “could have arisen naturally” and went on to explain the process which he thought happened in order for it to arise, and I read through his explanation, and I don’t onow if he realized it or not, but his explanation contained several supernatural processes needed under carefully controlled conditions, that also were not natural, in order for his hypothesis to work. In otherwords, his exp,anation was based on the need for an intelligent designer to carefully control and subvert natural conditions, and several supernatural processes to bring about “natural blood clotting” 😆
Oh and I have a couple of examples of the complexity required for “natural evolution”, and the mathematical impossibilities it,poses not just for 1 mutation to succeed in moving a species beyond its own kind, but for billions of mutations that would be needed to “create” all the species we see. If even just one mutation can’t accomp,ish it because of mathematical impossibi,ities, then trying it billions of times is so far beyond the realm of possibi,iti3e that it can’t be logically argued that evolution is efen a, well, possibility.
The answer is in the Bible. If you have not read it, I recommend you do.
?!The Universe is too young.?! I always thought the Universe is massively old. However, there is no doubt in my mind that is a Universal Concept of God. And here on Earth, Jesus Christ is the best representation. What May be on other planets in the Universe is that the other planets may have a Jesus as well. God is everywhere.
A mathematics professor from Georgia Tech once told me that “given an infinite amount of time, everything would almost have to be just like it is.” When I told him that he didn’t have an infinite amount of time according to The Science, he eventually landed at talking about “the time before the Big Bang,” whatever that is. We might underestimate just how committed these people are to their rebellion.
Time is to the atheist what God is to the believer.
Meaning the confector had to act as God.
Bkmk
...to their religion. Fixed it.
The answer is in the Bible. If you have not read it, I recommend you do.
Theymsure are committed. William dembski has a website where he discussed the impossibilities, Mathematically, for macroevolution to happen, even though he still believed himself that it did. The arguments that entailed on his site were something to behold. The vitriol.he ran into in the scientific community was astounding. There was a treasure trove of scientific evidence presented showing the need for an intelligent designer on the site, but the denials from the scientific community were jusy constant no matter how strong the evidence for the need.
Back in the 60s there was a scientific symposium of Mathematicians who got together i think in Chicago, to discuss the issue of evolution and its possibility or not. These were all mainstream scientists, the best of the lot at the time, not “fringe scientists” that “beleived in creation”
The conclusion of the symposium was that it was not possible, so far beyond the upper probability limits of possibility that it could not have happened- nature was not capable of creating life and changing species from one kind to another. It wasn’t just a “little bit impossible”, it is so far beyond possible that it can’t be argued that it “could have happend” even a few times in a few species, or even in one species, let alone billions
Yes- Miller (I be,eive it was him) actually argued for the need for an intelligent designer, even though he didn’t mean to.
For you to manifest what you really want, and choose Him; whether you will resist God, both via rejection of conscience and the degree of revelation provided, (Rm. 1,2) or that, by His grace, you will yield to both, obeying the degree of light one has, which will lead to more light,(Matthew 13:12) and if followed at some point, to The Light, (John 12:35, 36) the Word made flesh, coming to Him with a good and honest (with self and God) heart, seeking the mercy of God which is the Lord Christ, believing in Him with by effectual penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating justifying faith, (Acts 10:43-47, 15:7-9) who sent be the Father to be the Savior of the world. , (1 Jn. 4:14)
Who saves sinners by His sinless shed blood. And which faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and is shown in baptism and following the Lord, (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27, 28) whom they shall go to be with or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12, 10:25-39) Glory and thanks be to God.
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