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To: DiogenesLamp; central_va; Ultra Sonic 007; Pelham; wardaddy; Renfrew; BroJoeK; woodpusher

Earlier, I made the comment (copied and pasted into the bottom for convenience.) regarding Jefferson’s well-documented life.

In addition to your in-depth out response regarding Lemen, could you please provide:

1) Any evidence of Jefferson’s (as a legislator in the Burgesses) passionate fight IN FAVOR OF the dominance of slavery.
2) Any evidence of Jefferson’s (as Virginia Governor) passionate fight IN FAVOR OF the dominance of slavery.
3) Any evidence of Jefferson’s (as POTUS) passionate fight IN FAVOR OF the dominance of slavery.
4) Any evidence of Jefferson’s (as any other role; negotiator, advisor, activist, author) passionate fight IN FAVOR OF the dominance of slavery.

What were Jefferson’s thought provoking words promoting the goodness of the institution of slavery as important for the future of the United States? and why the legislation would preserve it?

Any 1 of 4 would be sufficient. I’m just asking for any legislative evidence, of any kind. Decades in public life.



(previous comment)
Early years as a legislator. Anti slavery
Declaration author. Anti slavery (even if, by the hands of others, it is removed. HE, Jefferson, did his job. Consistently)
Years as a governor. Anti slavery
Years as president. Anti slavery

Years in between as negotiator, advisor, activist, author, and other scenarios:

Anti slavery.


14 posted on 11/17/2024 6:58:06 AM PST by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica; DiogenesLamp; central_va; Ultra Sonic 007; Pelham; wardaddy; Renfrew
Thomas Jefferson (as well as George Washington and John Marshall) was a lifelong slave owner who died a slaveowner. Jefferson published advertisements to obtain the return of runaway slaves.

It is somewhat incredible that a lifelong slave owner such as Thomas Jefferson is considered to have been staunch abolitionist who fought a lifelong struggle for the cause of the abolition of slavery.

The great conundrum of the age was what to do with the slaves if they were freed. The laws of northern states of so-called gradual emancipation did not serve to create a population of free blacks amongst them, but to move their slave population south.

Allen T. Rice, Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time, New York, 1888, pg 61

Few subjects have been more debated and less understood than the Proclamation of Emancipation. Mr. Lincoln himself opposed to the measure, and when he very reluctantly issued his preliminary proclamation in Septermber 1862, he wished it distinctly understood that the deportation of the slaves was, in his mind, inseparably connected with the policy. Like Mr. Clay and other prominent leaders of the old Whig party, he believed in colonization, and that the separation of the two races was necessary to the welfare of both. He was at that time pressing upon the attention of Congress a scheme of colonization in Chiriqui, in Central America, which Senator Pomoroy espoused with great zeal, and in which he had the favor of a majority of the Cabinet, including Secretary Smith, who warmly endorsed the project.

During the Civil War, Lincoln offered a solution for the northern states which feared a mass migration of freed slaves to their states.

CW 5:534-35, President Lincoln, December 1, 1862, Annual Message to Congress [State of the Union]

Heretofore colored people, to some extent, have fled north from bondage; and now, perhaps, from both bondage and destitution. But if gradual emancipation and deportation be adopted, they will have neither to flee from. Their old masters will give them wages at least until new laborers can be procured; and the freed men, in turn, will gladly give their labor for the wages, till new homes can be found for them, in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race. This proposition can be trusted on the mutual interests involved. And, in any event, cannot the north decide for itself, whether to receive them?

It should be noted that the so-called "compact" could have had nothing to do with the then non-existent state of Illinois, but only with the territory ceded by Virginia, the Virginia county of Illinois, where slavery pre-existed the so-called "compact" and continued to exist.

As noted in Wikipedia, "The Illinois' Constitution of 1848 banned slavery, section 16 of its Declaration of Rights specifying, "There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the State, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." Subsequent legislation, however, led to one of the most restrictive Black Code systems in the nation until the American Civil War. The Illinois Black Code of 1853 (officially, "An Act to Prevent the Immigration of Free Negros into this State") prohibited any Black persons from outside of the state from staying in the state for more than ten days, subjecting Black emigrants who remain beyond the ten days to arrest, detention, a $50 (~$1,831 in 2023) fine, potential debt labor for those who could not pay, or deportation."

Also: "The Northwest Ordinance (1787) banned slavery in Illinois and the rest of the Northwest Territory. Nonetheless, slavery remained a contentious issue, through the period when Illinois was part of the Indiana Territory and the Illinois Territory and some slaves remained in bondage after statehood until their gradual emancipation by the Illinois Supreme Court. Thus the history of slavery in Illinois covers several sometimes overlapping periods: French (c. 1660s–1764); British (c. 1763–1783); Virginia (c. 1778–1785); United States Northwest Territory (1787–1800), Indiana Territory (1800–1809), Illinois Territory (1809–1818) and the State of Illinois (after 1818)."

Jefferson, as many others, opposed slavery in the territory ceded by Virginia to the United States. This was not to be confused with the abolition of slavery in Virginia or on the plantation at Monticello. They had no apparent solution to the existing problem of the black population and desired to limit the growth of what they perceived as a problem. They were not fighting for the creation of a large addition to the citizenry.

15 posted on 11/17/2024 10:27:56 AM PST by woodpusher
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To: ProgressingAmerica
I will add, in my opinion, Jefferson was the most significant figure in American history regarding abolition. He set into motion the idea that would eventually bring an end to it all, and he did it with five words.

"All men are created equal."

Biggest impact of any individual in that era.

23 posted on 11/18/2024 10:25:07 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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