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To: DiogenesLamp
No. We have battled over this before. Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, not tariffs. After the devastation of the war, "Lost Cause" myth-makers claimed falsely that tariffs were the true issue because keeping slavery was so ignoble a cause for war.

Actually, the country had compromised and revised tariffs numerous times before the Civil War. What could not be compromised though was slavery because the South refused to consider compromise.

I recommend that you take the time to read and consider the references to slavery in all the confederate articles of secession and Alexander H. Stephens "Cornerstone Speech" explaining the reason for secession. Then read several of the standard histories on the coming of the Civil War. There really is no room for serious dispute on the issue of slavery as the cause of the Civil War.

54 posted on 09/30/2024 2:20:49 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham; DiogenesLamp

“Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, not tariffs”

Lincoln repeatedly said that the war was about “Preserving the Union”. But what would he know.

Seven deep south States had left the Union before Lincoln took office. That shifted the balance of power in Congress to the point that an Amendment outlawing slavery would have easily passed.

But Lincoln and the GOP Congress didn’t do that. Slavery remained legal in the loyal States all through the War and for eight months afterward.

The 13th Amendment didn’t pass Congress until 4 years after Lincoln became President, and wasn’t ratified until months after the War had ended and Lincoln had been killed. Abolition had to wait for Democrat VP Andrew Johnson to become President.

Lincoln’s casus belli was the same as what motivated George III to send in the Redcoats 90 years earlier. Neither one was willing to permit “rebel traitors” to leave. The Royal government even issued two emancipation proclamations during the Revolution, further illustrating the parallel.


59 posted on 09/30/2024 3:40:48 PM PDT by Pelham (President Eisenhower. Operation Wetback 1953-54)
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To: Rockingham
No. We have battled over this before. Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, not tariffs.

Well firstly, "tariffs" is convenient term to dodge the real issue; 60% of the total production of the South going to the North. Tariffs" was a part of that, but all the protectionist schemes created by DC worked to the same purpose. The "Navigation act of 1817 gave Northeastern shippers a virtual monopoly on shipping, which they did with a great deal of gouging. Subsidies for Northern shipping also made it difficult for Southern shipping to compete with them. It's hard to make a profit when your competition starts out with a large chunk of operating cash thanks to the government.

Protectionist laws which made European products uncompetitive and so Southerners had to buy domestic products at much higher prices.

What the Northern controlled DC government was doing to the South went way beyond just "tariffs".

Secondly, how can you say with a straight face that "Slavery" was the cause of the war, when the Northern government offered them unlimited slavery on a silver platter? How can you say that with a straight face when there were 5 Northern slave states that didn't get invaded for having slavery?

You just say what we've all been taught, but the difference between you and me is that I started questioning these claims when I started noticing pieces that didn't fit right.

Actually, the country had compromised and revised tariffs numerous times before the Civil War.

It wasn't about just "tariffs". It was about protectionism, gouging in shipping, banking, warehousing, insurance, and every other hyped up cost the North imposed on the South for carrying their goods, and laws preventing them from hiring foreign ships to do the work. It was about the money being collected mostly from the South's export trade, and then spent in the North with no benefit to the South.

What could not be compromised though was slavery because the South refused to consider compromise.

Well the North certainly did compromise on slavery. They offered the South all the slavery they could possibly want. (Corwin Amendment)

Seems like both sides were in agreement on the slavery issue, so that wasn't the real sticking point for the war. What was the one non-negotiable thing? "You can't run your own trade and get out of our taxes."

That was the thing the North would not compromise on.

Slavery? Sure! Have all you want! But you better *PAY* us our 60%!

I recommend that you take the time to read and consider the references to slavery in all the confederate articles of secession and Alexander H. Stephens "Cornerstone Speech" explaining the reason for secession.

I am familiar with that. I'm familiar with all the (3 or 4) "secession documents". I'm also quite aware of which direction the money was flowing, and as a very cynical man, I have long discovered that you can always find the truth by following the money.

People lie about their honor, their morality, and their integrity, which is why you cannot trust what they say. You have to look at where the money goes.

I'm likely familiar with all the arguments you will put forth, but I very greatly doubt you are familiar with all of the arguments I might put forth. Specifically this argument isn't mine, but it seems plausible to me.

Syndicated Columnist Paul Craig Roberts has a very interesting explanation for why some people in the South claimed secession was about slavery.

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/11/13/a-civil-war-lesson-for-the-uneducated/

60 posted on 09/30/2024 3:43:32 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Rockingham; DiogenesLamp; Pelham

“There really is no room for serious dispute on the issue of slavery as the cause of the Civil War.”

That is an interesting comment.

If the South was fighting for slavery, who was fighting against slavery?


75 posted on 10/01/2024 8:54:25 AM PDT by jeffersondem
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