Posted on 08/23/2024 5:24:01 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
Is faith the only evidence for the existence of God? How do you refute this statement?
No, faith is not evidence - nor does is mean (as atheists define it), belief in the absence of evidence. Rather, Biblical faith is belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.
Abraham, called “the father of faith,” did not believe in the God of the Bible, who would later promise to make him the progenitor of innumerable descendants (Genesis 15:5) based upon simply words, (Exodus 3:2) nor did the Hebrews follow Moses and enter into a covenant based upon just words, (Psalms 106:1ff).
Neither does God hold souls responsible for unbelief in God without evidence. (Romans 1:19, 20)
Indeed, it is atheism that is a position of faith. For to believe that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for corporeal life with its profound intricate complexity and extensive diversity, can be all a result of purely natural processes requires much faith.
More so than that the universe logically testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a being of supreme power and intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter.
How would you respond to this argument: "Since science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, then it's possible he exists"?
Partly, by responding that scientific discovery and knowledge does not warrant the premise that the universe and everything therein can (at least someday) all be attributed to purely natural processes.
Meaning that the atheist/antitheist position that there is no Creator/God, is one lacking in evidential warrant and requires great faith. For atheists can only presume that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered, intricate universe,* exquisitely finely tuned for earthly life with its extensive diversity and astounding complexity, came to be by known (or potentially known), purely natural demonstrable powers, as if it was Divine, without any supreme supernatural intelligence behind it.
*
2. https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/06/Fine-Tuning-Parameters-Jay-Richards.pdf
2.5
A list of 60 aspects as regards the above is https://wng.org/roundups/a-fine-tuned-universe-1617224984
6. 'God: new evidence' - the fine tuning of the universe - part 1
7. When science and philosophy collide in a 'fine-tuned' universe
10. We Live in a Very Fortunate Universe
11. List of Fine-Tuning Parameters
12. List of Factors of Fine-Tuning of Intelligent Life in the Universe
13. Can DNA Prove the Existence of an Intelligent Designer?
14. [God DNA] Proves Presence of God” says Scientists
15. 82 Mind-Blowing Facts about DNA | FactRetriever.com
16. 'God: new evidence' - the fine tuning of the universe - part 1
17. Evidence for the Fine Tuning of the Universe
18. It Takes 26 Fundamental Constants To Give Us Our Universe, But They Still Don't Give Everything
19. The Universe as We Understand It May Be Impossible
Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible?
20. Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources
21. Is Jesus Alive?
24. Dawkins [essentially] Admits Nothing Can Persuade Him God Exists
25.5
26.
"according to many physicists, the fact that the universe is able to support life depends delicately on various of its fundamental characteristics, notably on the form of the laws of nature, on the values of some constants of nature, and on aspects of the universe’s conditions in its very early stages." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fine-tuning/ A listing of such follows.
“I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.” - Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy) Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.
“Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word ‘miraculous’ without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word.” - George Ellis (British astrophysicist) Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments. The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York, Cambridge University Press, p. 30
“We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.” - John O’Keefe (astronomer at NASA) Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 200.
“As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton
“The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.” - Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry in, "Physics Today" 25, pp. 23-28
“The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, and would be total chaos if any of the natural ‘constants’ were off even slightly. - - Dr. Paul Davies, esteemed author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide University.
“...how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.” - Professor Steven Weinberg (Nobel Laureate in High Energy Physics [a field of science that deals with the very early universe], writing in the journal “Scientific American”.)
16O has exactly the right nuclear energy level either to prevent all the carbon from turning into oxygen or to facilitate sufficient production of 16O for life. Fred Hoyle, who discovered these coincidences in 1953, concluded that “a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.” - Hoyle, Fred. “The Universe: Past and Present Reflections,” in Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 20. (1982), p.16 (for more of these coincidences click here)
“If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one… Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written into the fabric of the universe.” - Christian de Duve. “A Guided Tour of the Living Cell” (Nobel laureate and organic chemist)
“...The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system: it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of organisms which have ever existed on the planet…could be held in a teaspoon and there would still be room left for all the information in every book ever written…” - Dr. Michael Denton (Australian microbiologist)
As regards “order,” from another non-Christian:
“The order of the universe is not an assumption; it’s an observed fact. We detect the light from distant quasars only because the laws of electromagnetism are the same 10 billion light years away as here. The spectra of those quasars are recognizable only because the same chemical elements are present there as here, and because the same laws of quantum mechanics apply. The motion of galaxies around one another follows familiar Newtonian gravity. Gravitational lenses and binary pulsar spin-downs reveal general relativity in the depths of space. We could have lived in a universe with different laws in every province, but we do not. This fact cannot but elicit feelings of reverence and awe.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
*As Albert Einstein observed, " We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations."
“I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.” - Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy) Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.
“Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word ‘miraculous’ without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word.” - George Ellis (British astrophysicist) Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments. The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York, Cambridge University Press, p. 30
“We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.” - John O’Keefe (astronomer at NASA) Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 200.
“As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton
“The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.” - Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry in, "Physics Today" 25, pp. 23-28
“The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, and would be total chaos if any of the natural ‘constants’ were off even slightly. - - Dr. Paul Davies, esteemed author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide University.
“...how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.” - Professor Steven Weinberg (Nobel Laureate in High Energy Physics [a field of science that deals with the very early universe], writing in the journal “Scientific American”.)
16O has exactly the right nuclear energy level either to prevent all the carbon from turning into oxygen or to facilitate sufficient production of 16O for life. Fred Hoyle, who discovered these coincidences in 1953, concluded that “a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.” - Hoyle, Fred. “The Universe: Past and Present Reflections,” in Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 20. (1982), p.16 (for more of these coincidences click here)
“If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one… Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written into the fabric of the universe.” - Christian de Duve. “A Guided Tour of the Living Cell” (Nobel laureate and organic chemist)
“...The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system: it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of organisms which have ever existed on the planet…could be held in a teaspoon and there would still be room left for all the information in every book ever written…” - Dr. Michael Denton (Australian microbiologist)
For non-seeking atheists, like their rebel master, their denial of God and rejection of a supreme judge even as a hypothesis, their adament position due to their unconscious desire to be as God, as the supreme judge (atheism being a progression of idolatry) rather than being subject to Him.
Thus, they effectively presume omniscience in sitting in moral judgment upon an omniscient and omnipotent creator (at least of the Bible). Who cannot be judged since the choices of an omniscient and omnipotent creator are made in the light of His unique knowledge of what all the effects will be of every choice, not only in this brief time, but for eternity.
And who can - as He promises to do - make all to work out for what is Good, with justice towards the idolaters, and mercy and grace toward those who want what God represents, and thus seek and find The Light, The Way The Truth and The Life, by the grace of God. (Romans 2:7, 8; Romans 8:28)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:18-21)
Footnotes
Ping
I’m of the opinion that anything that gets them started is good. You don’t believe in the divinity of Christ? Fine. Practice Christianity. My experience is that eventually, people who practice the religion will ultimately accept all aspects of the religion.
As a society, we as Americans have basically stuck both middle fingers in God’s face, telling Him “We’re doing it OUR way!”. The rapid rise in drug use, the outright promotion and acceptance of deviant sin (homosex), and the wanton murder of the unborn tells anyone who understands that we as a nation have abandoned the Lord (or, if not, we’re very, very close). Given how things have been going, one only needs to read Romans 1:18-32 so see what we’ve been doing and where this is going.
(Speaking in the political realm, unless a whole lot of prayer and repentance happens, and soon, I have this feeling that God will ‘give them up to a debased mind” [Rom. 1:28] and give them the leadership that they want...as in Kommie Kammie and Tampon Tim. I hope and pray I’m wrong.)
I agree with you completely. As Jesus said, “He who is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40).
Exactly.
“The video features various celebrities and public figures, including Richard Dawkins, Elon Musk, Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray, Niall Ferguson, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Tom Holland, discussing their perspectives on Christianity. Many of them identify as “cultural Christians,” appreciating Christian ethics and traditions without necessarily believing in the faith’s core tenets. They express a desire for the moral and cultural benefits of Christianity but often stop short of committing to its religious beliefs.”
A lot of freemasons talk like that. Also a lot of so called conservative politicians.
It displays the prophecy that speaks of people who would be very culturally religious in the last days while “denying the power there-of”!
If Christianity is just a better way to live, but doesn’t have heaven, it is of moderate value, but only in this life....but keep in mind that Richard Dawkins has 3.9 million followers on Twitter.
If just one soul is saved because of his comments about Christianity, wouldn't that be worth something? In fact, doesn't all of heaven rejoice when just one lost soul is saved?
Last chance?
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Amen brother. A few Pastors I talk to have been having the same thoughts, Revival.
As America has lost their way, now doing Satan’s work, do be aware of what Biblical history shows: Revival occurs when a Nation is first brought to their knees, .gov can’t save them, money can’t save them, “ science” can’t save them, family can’t save them, only God almighty can save them from their troubles.
Think of all the spiritual leaders that came on to the scene in the 30’s, it took a Great Depression to spark off one of our greatest Revivals in history….yes, history repeats, we are entering interesting, glorious times.
Be not afraid for what is most certainly coming, give Thanks every day, and Pray often.
Bookmark
How wonderful that would be.
I invite folks on this thread to join me in praying for such events.
It is useless if the stop there, but it is very useful if the person asks the follow up question of “why?” What sets it apart from all the other moral teaching and religions and philosophies to produce such a superior result as a foundation for culture and civilization.
That how my personal journey toward Christ started. I went from an agnostic deist to a cultural Christian to a baptized believer over a course of about 5 years.
Correct. It’s just another way to package their new-age beliefs. They still keep the human at the center of all things, and not Jesus.
“ The question arises, is this a first step in their journey or just a knee-jerk reaction…”
At the end of the day, being Christian is a black and white thing…you are either all-in or you are out. So I suspect for some, they will complete the journey, but for many they will fall off somewhere along the road.
bfl
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