Posted on 06/12/2024 8:08:27 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
One of the main reasons Russia has a boil water Navy is the same reason the Germans did it World War II. Just national pride. You’re nobody if you don’t have a navy.
NATO is a defensive alliance to protect its members from Russia, why in the world would they allow Russia in NATO?
Are America, Taiwan, Australia the Philippines, and Japan going to join with China to protect themselves from China?
They did. They help protect us during the Civil War. But that was more of a statement from the czar. In 1860, the Russian fleet was no match for the royal navy. But what it did was the signal to the Brit’s that they would be at war with Russia if they intervened for the south, and it would be involving British interests on land over in Europe and Asia.
Yours is a good counter-argument. The whole Ukraine vs. Russia situation is a mess. Much of it is NATO’s fault for not being more sensitive to Russian concerns right after the fall of the Soviet Union.
On the flip side, Russia/Soviet Union has a history of being rather unfriendly to its neighbors. (That unfriendliness towards neighbors is of course not unique to Russia.)
There are no good solutions here. The best we can hope for is some sort of negotiated peace. Trump could pull that off. I don’t think anyone else can.
This proxy war was wanted, and there is overwhelming evidence supporting that claim, and that evidence has been presented many times over, however, that evidence has been rejected every time by the warmongers.
Warmongers are those who are warmongering, how bizarre to be the imperialistic invader starting the war destroying your neighbor nation and having some gullible people calling the nation you are conquering’s desperate resistance and those who help them with material aid, the “warmongers”.
I guess we will hear this when China starts wiping out Taiwan as well.
> NATO is a defensive alliance… <
That was my position, too. No doubt about it. Then another Freeper gently pointed out to me that NATO was used offensively in Kosovo and in Libya.
I consider Putin to be a war criminal. But I would not blame him if he saw NATO as something more than a defensive alliance.
The war started in 2014 when the CIA overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine and installed a NATO stooge regime. Russia put up with it as long as possible before being forced to bring NATO’s unprovoked proxy war to an end. But you know that. You’re just being tediously obstinate with your Russia, Russia, Russia deliriums again.
Yes, that same NATO. The NATO that, again unprovoked, involved itself in the killing of hundreds of thousands of Afghans while protecting West Germany from the Warsaw Pact (NATO’s only defensive point of being). Oh yeah, surely you’ve heard of the plans for NATO’s coming permanent East Asia franchise.
NATO is simply the brutal world enforcer thug for the neoconistic globohomo world crusade.
Blue water
The Ruskies had a role in our revolutionary war - on our side - as well.
LOL, don’t make a mountain out of a mole hill, it is a defensive alliance and Russia knows that and even demonstrates it quietly when you see how casually they don’t bother with defenses against NATO during this invasion, not to mention being left alone when they were cracking up.
“Does not our military operate similarly close to Russian territory?”
You might even take it a step further. Does anyone with any knowledge not know that there has been Russian subs in our waters starting as early as 1987. They are there in most cases to monitor communications, oversee ship movements, and yes, some are nuclear armed. It is estimated that from their launch to hitting targets over the mainland with a burst is about 20 minutes. So being concerned about a Russian sub visiting Cuba is a bit immature. They’ve been saying howdy there since the late 1950’s.
wy69
Meh, NATO is a welfare program for globalists, EU bureaucrats and the defense industry. They are expansionist and aggressive. With zero reason they attacked Libya and bombed Serbia for 100 days. They were behind a Nazi coup in the Ukraine.
The one thing NATO could never tolerate is not having an enemy. Russia make 20 years of big efforts to just be a normal nation with friendly trade relations and no aggression. They cut their military to 10% of the Fulda Gap era size.
We responded with nothing but insults, agendas, and wanting them to agree to become an administrative district of DC/London and western bankers.
NATO and western globalists caused this.
If Switzerland decides to join NATO as they are discussing among themselves because of what they see in Russia’s present and future, it isn’t because a country called NATO is conquering them and expanding, it is because Russia is.
A Destroyer, an oiler, and a tug? And one sub? A poor flotilla. Last time they sent the “Peter the Great” a cruiser with nukes. That was impressive. Why do I feel the second shoe is about to drop? They have more plans than a chance for the saiors to see the Copacabana and visit Habana’s Notorious Brothels.
I wonder if you'd laugh if Russia launched a nuclear strike and used the sub to knock out our early warning radar?
-btw whose calling it a flotilla besides you?
Not to worry, the Russians have a whole fleet of submarine tug boats located under the Black Sea. New tugs coming online every month.
Not much of a power or capability. Not since the loss of two fleets to the Japanese.
Port Arthur 1904 Eastern Fleet wiped out and the Battle of Tsushima as well— lot of sunk non-replaced vessels.
Such that in WWII Soviets remained “neutral” vs. Japan- as they had no presence. Only after US a-bombs did Stalin “declare war”— cagey lying bastard.
As you pointed out previously UK had issues with Russia. They allied to help the Japanese at Port Arthur to take out the Eastern Fleet. They also contrived to have the replacement Russian navy vessels be made by German Blohm & Voss yards (so the Brits stole the plans for those ships apparently).
Ah yes. Remember the Cuban missle crisis?
It ended when the Soviet Union agreed to remove their missiles from Cuba, We declared victory.
AND
It ended when we agreed to remove our missiles from Turkey, the Soviet Union declared victory.
Win-win...
Agreed.
Much ado about nothing.
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