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To: MtnClimber

Hydrogen is not a fuel source. Hydrogen is an energy storage medium like a battery. The only place where Hydrogen makes sense (and it ain’t much sense) is as a load leveler for Solar and Wind farms.

Create and store Hydrogen during peak Solar or Wind production, burn Hydrogen in generators during low or no Wind or Solar production.

But as a fuel for automobiles, it’s a non-starter.


4 posted on 02/15/2024 5:02:17 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: Yo-Yo

Hydrogen is quite common in Earth crust, but all of it is tied in water, hydrocarbon compounds and many minerals. In order to get pure hydrogen, it has to be manufactured by quite expensive methods. Especially the green ones use more energy that it ultimately delivers.
There is no free hydrogen on the Earth!

There is a lot of hydrogen in Sun!
Maybe we could make a pipeline from there!😜


8 posted on 02/15/2024 5:18:56 AM PST by AZJeep
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To: Yo-Yo
My take, and I type this as someone with solar, batteries, and do most of my driving in an EV:

1) So called "green" hydrogen ain't green even if produced with solar or wind when you think about what goes into making solar panels and wind turbines. IMHO, hydro power is about the only thing that's truly energy harnessing with little pollution impact. And even that is under attack by the left. And in right-controlled states hydro power is probably about as utilized as it can get (i.e. I can't think of anywhere else in my home state of Alabama to build a dam).

2) Anything done at the grid level with intermittent energy sources is beyond stupid. Even with green hydrogen touted as a storage medium to smooth out the "duck curve", it's still not dependable enough.

3) The only areas where hydrogen or solar or wind make sense is if it's decentralized (for your own home or your own business) to make yourself a bit more self-reliant on energy so that the government overlords have less control over you and your finances with their warmageddon cult energy policies.

4) So if you are thinking about hydrogen storage in a decentralized manner, fine. I get that. Just know that the return trip efficiency of kWh used to run the electrolyzer, store hydrogen even as a gas (without extra kWh to cool it as a liquid), then later use that hydrogen gas to power a fuel cell to give you kWh when needed --- all of that has a horrible efficiency rate. The best I've seen IIRC is 40% of kWh retrieved from the fuel cell for every kWh used by the electrolyzer (a 60% loss). But with my battery storage I have only a 9.8% loss. (In year 2023 I charged my batteries a total of 12.0667 mWh, and discharged them a total of 10.8805 mWh, for a loss of 1.1862 mWh. That means of all the power used to charge them during the days, with some loss of power during the charge, some loss holding the charge for a few hours until night, then some more loss pulling the charge from the batteries when my electrical panels needed power, I had on average a 90.2% throughput. To get that same total 10.8805 mWh from hydrogen storage with only 40% throughput I would have had to use a lot more than 12.0667 mWh generating the hydrogen, when means I would have had to spend a lot more on solar panels to generate that power and use up a lot more space for those panels.)

25 posted on 02/15/2024 6:39:28 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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