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Zeepers are so lame, shortsighted, and stupid...

Let me explain what I see as the problem.

When the Soviet Union fell, part of their inventory of nuclear weapons were in Ukraine. Ukraine was persuaded to give these up, and one of the inducements was a guarantee of territorial integrity from western nations.

Fast forward a few years and Russia takes Crimea. A few years later, they are back wanting more of Ukraine.

Now, if the west does not help Ukraine, tell me what is going to happen the next time a small country ends up with a few nukes? And don't tell me it cant happen -- it already did.

Especially one that does not have the technical expertise to maintain them. They "go bad" after a period of non-maintenance. The temptation to use them before that happens is going to be very powerful. And they will look at the history of Ukraine and think "western promises are worthless".

This is the kind of stuff that leads to a very destructive WWIII.

Am I stupid or have many of us forgotten recent history? Maybe those who ignore our commitments are lame and shortsighted.

>> Now, if the west does not help Ukraine, tell me what is going to happen the next time a small country ends up with a few nukes? And don’t tell me it cant happen — it already did... This is the kind of stuff that leads to a very destructive WWIII.

So you deem it wise to fight Russia by proxy because you’re concerned about some fantasy nuclear war caused by some vague unnamed players who somehow get nukes? Seriously?

What about the “kind of stuff” that has NATO fighting an ACTUAL proxy war with American and British weapons against an ACTUAL nuclear power RIGHT NOW? You don’t think that Britain’s destruction of Russia’s capital warships — and make no mistake, Ukraine by itself NEVER could destroy those ships — could never provoke a nuclear response and “a very destructive WWIII”?

I share your concern about avoiding nuclear conflict but the Euro-American globalist deep state provocation of Russia is a hell of a lot more dangerous than the fabulist worry you outlined as a good reason to beat them down.

Ukraine was persuaded to give these up, and one of the inducements was a guarantee of territorial integrity from western nations.

Ukraine explicitly gave up the nukes in their possession in return for recognition as a sovereign nation. Neither Russia NOR the United States were willing to let Ukraine retain those weapons. If you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum as a "guarantee", it was anything but; extant records from that time explicitly show that the United States were not putting a guarantee of military assistance on the table. (This is also notwithstanding that the Memorandum in question also said there would be no attempts at violating Ukraine's political and economic integrity, and the West's hands certainly aren't clean in that respect.)

At any rate, the Memorandum's applicability is somewhat dubious after Ukraine's government was overthrown during Euromaidan, and the terms of the Memorandum itself would have been superseded by actual treaties like Minsk I and Minsk II.

Fast forward a few years and Russia takes Crimea.

Two decades is "a few years"?

Now, if the west does not help Ukraine,

If the West had not "helped" Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine would have agreed to a ceasefire within months of Russia's initial invasion. (Thank Boris Johnson for convincing Zelensky to not negotiate.)

And they will look at the history of Ukraine and think "western promises are worthless".

I think we already proved that with the case of Libya and Muammar Gaddafi. After the Iraq War, he decommissioned his own weapons programs and desired greater economic/military cooperation with the West, eventually getting to the point that Libya was no longer a state sponsor of terrorism. Yet, in 2011, NATO air strikes and a NATO-enforced no-fly zone signalled the death knell for Gaddafi following the Libyan Civil War. Years later, Libya is still a dumpster fire.

I think that incident, more than anything else, would have told other nations that getting rid of their own weapons programs to appease the West would not guarantee their help (as not even a decade had elapsed between Gaddafi decommissioning those weapons and Gaddafi getting ousted).