Posted on 12/03/2023 5:46:10 AM PST by SunkenCiv
The land we now call Mexico was there long before there were people around to argue about what to call it.
And the people who occupied it for most of the last 12,000 years certainly had very different ideas about what any particular bit was called.
“Mexico existed 5000 years ago?”
We are talking about science here. That’s something less believable than a children’s fairy tale book.
I can see the probability of the Indians native to south of the Rio Grande making it to what is now California, but they were not Mexican in any sense of the word.
Who knew the Mexicans drove the Eskimo’s off their land.
Guess the fossils of humans that crossed the land bridge 25,000 year ago don’t count.
How did indigenous Mexicans get from the Siberian land bridge to Mexico without passing through California?
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They had Transporters or else they had some other form of magic. This is well documented by the various theories promulgated by science today.
Alternately, they took boats down the coast, skipping over the rich land and fishing resources, in a mad dash to become the first Mexicans.
I a.lm very surprised to learn that migrants brought their own languages with them.
“Aztec” is a later made-up term.
The people Cortez found in that valley called themselves “Mexica”. Hence the Spanish adopted the term.
Oddly enough the rich resources of California never bred any highly civilized peoples. When the Spanish came they found quite primitive hunter-gatherer clans. Unlike the Misissippi and Ohio river cultures. Or even the agricultural Iroquois or Algonquins.
wetbacks go way back
Years ago the story I read was that the Aztecs had arrived not many cdnturies earlier in the Valley of Mexico, saw an eagle sitting on a cactus by a lake and settled there. Originally it was said they came south from an especially savage small tribe living in the harsh desert lands between the Valley and the US area.
I don’t doubt that cannibalism had its place in the overall survival behavior in troubled food situations. However, specifically with regard to the Aztecs, apparently several generations before the Spaniards arrived a chief advisor of the Aztecs proposed making this a state policy supplied through the ritualistic “flowery” wars against neighboring tribes, especially against the tribe called Tlaxcallans. As a consequence, guess who became Cortez’s chief allies—the Tlaxcallans. Further interesting factoid, guess what the Aztec (Nauhatl) word for tortilla is—tlaxcalli. It has been suggested that the tlaxcallans provided Cortez’s 150 man “Army” with around 200,000 warriors when they invaded tenochtitlan. European guns and horses, made the difference, but angry Tlaxcallans made the victory possible. They were tired of being “lunch”. In their everlasting gratitude, the Spaniards succeeded in robbing the tlaxcallans, “legally” at every chance they could to claim land and other wealth.
Major Indian settlements in Mexico and Central America did not have any large protein animals as were available in the US area like Buffalo, Elk, and deer. For protein they were dependent mostly on turkey, and fish. Human meat, yummy.
Their original home in their folklore was Atzlan, which of course spawned interest because Atzlan *must be* Atlantis. ;^) Their folklore probably has roots perhaps a two or three centuries prior to the conquest, so, a hard no to that idea.
My recollection is of seeing Aztlan described as somewhere to the west or northwest of Tenochtitlan. I just now remembered seeing small dried seafood like shrimp being sold in the native market(s) in southern Mexico and/or Central America. I traveled to San Cristobal de las Casas (south of Oaxaca) around late 1950s. Then in 1969 traveled by car or minibus through Mexico as far as Nicaragua on the main highway. So at this point in life my memory is a little disjointed. It also occurs to me that the major civilizations in Yucatan and parts of Central America were located closer to the ocean than was Tenochtitlan, and thus had easier access to ocean food resources.
“I can see the probability of the Indians native to south of the Rio Grande making it to what is now California, but they were not Mexican in any sense of the word.”
The people’s of the geographic region of what modern day people have drawn lines on a map calling it Mexico referred to themselves in their native Nahuatl word as MÃÂxihco. Thus the Spaniards called them Mexicans. Those people’s native language goes back thousands of years probably as this study shows 5000+ years. People have been in north,meso and South America for at least 20,000 years there is evidence in Central Texas of 30,000 year old anatomically modern humans. The DNA evidence is showing multiple waves of migration over the last 20,000+ years from vastly different DNA groups. Most modern First Nations, Eskimo, and PacNW indigenous share a common ancestor in the Siberian region.
Kennewick Man who is 9000+ years old has completely different Y chromosome groups and his closest ancestor is from the occupied japanese island of Hokkaido with the indigenous Ainu all having this Y chromosome group. Some PacNW tribes have Kennewick Man Y as do a good number of plains American Indians, every living Comanche has this Y group as does the one typing this post I am 40% by DNA Comanche/Apache. This shows at least two groups came in two waves in the past.
The current theory is one came over the land bridge the other used boats and island hopped following the rich marine life that always exists at the edge of the sea ice. The Eskimo still to this day live this lifestyle. Humans have been able to make ocean going boats for at least 50000 years there is evidence in Australia and the.Mediterranean for long distance 200+ mile round trip Stone age boat trips.
Obsedian from a single 100+ mile offshore source in the med has been found in Neanderthal sites dating past 50000 years closer to 100,000 all over the med. This alone confirms seafaring tech in the Stone age rafts couldn’t make the trip and swimming is right out.
People have built modern copies of kayaks using primitive materials ,skins and tools then paddled them from North America to the UK and Europe. Same for Irish skin boats one explorer made a primitive era ocean going skin boat and sailed it from Ireland to New York.
The DNA shows that South American indigenous have at least two sources one of them is Polynesian in Y chromosome groups. The Polynesians absolutely being master mariners could have reached South America. South American could also have reached Polynesian islands the Kon Tiki is the actual proof of this that balsa raft sailed from Peru to deep in Polynesian territory. The fact that yams are in the Polynesian islands shows someone took them there thousands of years ago they are indigenous to South America.
The point is humans including our sub species of Neanderthals, sapiens and modern sapiens sapiens all had ocean going boat technology and used that for very long-distance travel. Australia was populated 45000 years ago requiring a 200+ mile open ocean crossing. To think that 20,000 years later humans couldn’t travel along the coast line from Asia to North America them down the coasts to Mesoamerica and South America is simply absurd. Humans also could and likely and travel from Europe to North America thousands of years ago. It’s proven Vikings made it in 1000AD there is DNA evidence and preclovis Stone tech that shows Iberian Peninsula humans got to North America 25000+ years ago before the Siberian region Y chromosome groups 12000 years ago, and the following 9000yo Hokkaido Kennewick Man tribes.
Musta come to make movies...
I didn't know that they had DNA technology in ancient times either.
""Now with advances in ancient DNA technology.."
You must be wrong because we are told it was sunshine and unicorns till Europeans showed up /
Like I said recentism
My invading, killing,warring, enslaving, and canabalism was fine, but you guys BAD
NOW GIVE IS BACK TEAXAS THAT YOI STOLE FROM US AFTER WE TOOK IT FROM SPAIN WHO TOOK OT FROM EXISTING TRIBES WHO TOOK FROM THE TRIBES BRFORE THEM….
sound familiar? Is there any race other than the Jews who can trace an area back more than them, if so would love to hear
Truly amazing
Human sacrifice was part of the dominant culture.
Not the best culture to raise your children
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