Posted on 10/15/2023 7:37:00 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
So basically, because Zelenskyy did a comedy sketch ONE TIME where he sent up Beyonce and the Cossacks, and because hedid a gag about playing a piano with his dick ONE TIME, you’re in full on Zelenskyy Derangement Syndrome and think the whole country should be overrun by the biggest, most ideological, most neofascist regime on the planet.
It’s a good job President Reagan never played a pinko queer in a movie one time, because judging by the pro Putin lobby’s dumb-as-a-stump homo obsessed Freeper contingent reasoning they would’ve been rooting for the Soviets in a heartbeat.
We’ve had pinko commie loving scum over here in Britain for forty years arguing dumb stuff like the 1983 near nuclear war was America’s fault because the paranoid Soviet leadership didn’t believe Able Archer was just an exercise because the Soviets were paragons of honesty and the Yanks were pathological liars.
Those guys have pulled up their deckchairs, cracked open the popcorn, are reading the utter drivel coming from the “not my county, not my problem, and I get all my impartial my news from Sputnik and RT” crowd, and are laughing so hard they’re sharting.
There’s a good argument to be had that Ukrainian independence from Putin’s Russia isn’t America’s beef. Nor is Taiwanese independence from mainland China. Nor is Israel’s right to exist. You can go in any direction with “not my country, not on my dime”. If you’re with the Monroe Doctrine, great.
But the minute you start echoing the argument that Russia is the victim not Ukraine, or China is the victim not Taiwan, or Israel is a bigger victim of Hamas than the Palestinian people, or that the Muslim diaspora is the real victim of the Six Day War not Israel, then you become a revisionist useful idiot.
And if you’re tying that into homo obsession then you really are more idiot than useful.
It always helps to know where to draw the line.
Sorry, but your history is incorrect.
Both Muscowy and Ukraine/Ruthenia derive from medieval Kyivan Rus.
Both disappeared into communism (as an aside, the Soviet Republic of Ukraine had a separate seat in the UN from the USSR so was de jure “independent” - if not de facto).
After 1991 the Republic of Ukraine became de-facto and de-jure independent in May 1991. The Russian Federation became de-facto and de-jure independent in October 1991.
So, the current Republic of Ukraine is actually a few months OLDER than the Russian Federation.
One can’t say “they are the same” culturally or linguistically - they are “similar” but not the same - in the same way that the USA and Canada have the same “origins” and are similar but not the same.
Ukraine and the RF started off as very corrupt in the 90s, but since 2000 they have diverged in “corruption index” with Ukraine getting less corrupt and the RF getting more corrupt.
However, looking at purely “what’s in it for the USA” - Putin’s invasion opens up the door to 19th century gunboat diplomacy and wars of conquest - as we saw in the Azerbaijani confidence with Nagorno. This is hazardous to world peace and thereby to the USA’s financial well being.
The USA should not send foot soldiers into Ukraine, but it should not allow Russia to get away with the conquest by force - to prevent THAT pandora’s box from opening.
Elaborating more on the concept of nationhood of the East Slavs — the history goes that in the 8th century they invited the Varangian (Nordic) Rus to rule over them. The Rus/Rurikid dynasty became slavicized over 4 generations and then that was cemented when the ruler converted to Christianity.
However, the East Slavs, formed into the “confederation of Kyivan Rus” were not a nation - rather a sprachsbund —> just as “Germania” was.
The South Slavs got a sense of nationhood under the Turkic Bulgars (the Croats/Serbs didn’t get it until later in the 9th century), the West Slavs got a sense of nationhood under the Bohemian and then Piast kings. But I digress.
The East Slavs - whether under Muscowy or Warsaw/Krakow didn’t have a defined sense of nationhood until the late 1700s to the late 1800s. This isn’t unusual - the rise of nationalism came at the same period. Before that, a person from Kyiv said “I’m a Kyivian”, etc. - local sentiments.
Moscow tried to Russify the Belarus and the Red Rus (Ukrainians) in the 1800s and could have succeeded if not for WWI. The creation of “communism in one country” under Stalin pushed Russification, but created the SSRs.
In 1991 the SSRs became independent countries, but Tatarstan, Chechnya did not.
Moscow COULD have ensured that the Ukrainians ‘became’ muscowites, just as the folks from Turin made most Italians speak the Turin dialect and become Italian.
But Putin’s invasions of 2014 and 2022 have invigorated the sense of “Ukrainian nationality” by giving them an “other”/
“Let Europe handle this. “
On this we agree — but I don’t see this as being led by any of the European countries. I’d like Poland to lead it, but it is not strong enough.
The EU countries should be paying much, much more for helping Ukraine.
Damn right they should. It’s their back yard.
Not our circus, not our monkeys.
And thanks to that carrot in The White House We The People are funding the pensions of Zelensky’s cronies.
His ‘’ministers’’.
Geez, I wish Uncle Same would fund my retirement.
Yeah, I’m in ZDM, so what? I’ve a f’ing right to and you should be pissed too.
Now we’re funding the retirement of all his ‘’ministers’’.
Wake up.
My point is that, if the US didn’t get involved in sending materiel to Ukraine, then it WOULD BE our circus and monkeys.
This is analogous to the situation in 1938 when Germany took over the Sudentenland. By giving in, the UK and France set themselves up for a long, horrific war.
Exactly. And what’s funny is that people have airbrushed our appeasement strategy as if we were buying time...
Germany has admitted that Minsk 2 was intended to be the same thing. Appeasement to some, “buying time for Ukraine to defend itself” to others.
If appeasement by Britain was wrong, and “buying time” was also wrong, then logically Germany shouldn’t have appeased Putin and also shouldn’t have bought time for Ukraine to prepare for a very obviously signposted aggression.
It’s consistency Jim, but not as we know it.
So, when the U.S. as ruled by the Clintons (true Grifters), did you call the U.S. a “nation of grifters and thugs”, or did you acknowledge that what some are and what some do was not representative of the nation? Ukraine deserves as much, and the war against Ukraine by Putin has absolutley zero to do with the “Ukraine” things you complain about.
South Korea was led very imperfectly by its first post-WWII leader, but in spite of the many imperfections of that leader - none of which were cause for North Korea’s invasion - the people of South Korea deserved our support, which we gave. Saving South Korea for the South Korean’s at that time, led to the domestic developments that blossomed into the booming democracy they are today, instead of the whole penninsula being ruled by the dictators in the North.
The Russians and the Ukrainians are no saints. And if you've been paying attention I've said from the beginning that they're two scorpions in a bottle.
Don't give me any historical rationalizations and spare me the self-righteousness because self-righteousness is just a phony form of respectability.
Remember just who it is that gave Putin the green light for this ‘’special operation’’.
It was Joe Biden who gave him the ok for a ‘’limited incursion’’.
War was not yet on the horizon in Europe in 1938 and when it did come Americans were dead set against any involvement in another European war. War was underway in Europe for two years before Pearl Harbor thrust us into it and only because Hitler declared war against us on Dec.10,1941 were we compelled to get involved.
“It was Joe Biden who gave him the ok for a ‘’limited incursion’’. “
And that makes Ukraine the bad guys????
You - and many others - seem to be of mind that if Trump had been president in 2023 and Putin ignored any warnings from Trump, and invaded Ukraine anyway, that then aid to Ukraine would be good whereas primarily because Biden is in office, aid to Ukraine is bad. That’s nuts.
“If’’ is the middle word in life. Trump is not in office and wasn’t in office in 2022, was he?
Do you suffer from a bad memory?
I said when this started these two countries are two scorpions in a bottle and not worth our blood or treasure.
Try and keep up.
You try to keep up, blaming a war Putin started as Ukraine’s fault and using Biden in office as an excuse for not helping Ukraine.
Let me explain it again. I don’t give a rats whisker for the two of them! Ok?
I’m pissed at my government for giving billions of our tax dollars to that grifting little weasel and all he does is tell us we have to give more!
At one time he wanted $5 billion a f’ng month!
Are you ok with that?
I’m not.
I hope these two, Putin and Zelensky kill each other off!
Understand?
“I’m pissed at my government for giving billions of our tax dollars to that grifting little weasel and all he does is tell us we have to give more!”
You need some meds.
No. You need a lobotomy. You’re ok with funding the pensions of Ukrainian oligarchs who never contributed ANYTHING to the United States , our economy or our treasury? And you launch a thinly veiled ad hominemn at me?.
Screw you.
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