Posted on 10/09/2023 3:07:19 AM PDT by RandFan
I believe in self defense — on a personal level as well as a national level. If you get attacked, then I think the rule book should go out the window. I don’t see any reason why the US should jump into the conflict in Ukraine or Israel, but I think we should accept Israel’s right to permanently deal with the Palestinian problem. There is nothing that Israel might do which I would oppose. No rules. I think that our emotional and political support for what is coming should be sufficient. Israel can handle this.
Every losertarian I know is an open borders idiot.
I support Israel 100 percent. It is not our war, however American Citizens were killed and are being held hostage. I don’t think that President Trump would tolerate that. We should only go to war if attacked, and then it should be total war.
I was just being a smart aleck with my response. I side with Jefferson on that particular issue. The Barbary pirates were seizing ships in the Mediterranean, regardless of what their business was or their destination, and enslaving people who couldn’t pay a ransom. They needed killing.
Ukraine not our problem. Israel not our problem. Taiwan not our problem. Islamic terrorists in Africa not our problem. Communists in Latin America not our problem. Why, for that matter, are California or Massachusetts our problem? Why not secede from the District of Columbia?
If we could costlessly establish peace-loving, democratic countries throughout the world, we should. The obvious, selfish benefit would be that we, and no other country would need spend significant amount of money on national defense.
But, the cost of establishing peace-loving, democratic countries throughout the world would be prohibitive. The question, then, is where is it profitable for us to draw the line of our free trade zone and mutual defense (not that these two things must exactly coincide)?
Through the 19th Century, the great oceans of the world made an excellent border. That was a time of semi-isolationism. With the Monroe Doctrine, we defined our trade and defense border to this hemisphere. We also pursued our Manifest Destiny, to expand to the Pacific. I suspect today’s isolationists might not approve of either the Monroe Doctrine nor Manifest Destiny.
But, the pragmatic approach of the 19th Century went even further. It meant that the Continental Congress did not attack slavery, so as to not antagonize the Carolinas and Georgia, and through the 1850 or so, we carefully added states to keep the number of slave and free states equal. Eventually, we might have known that a house divided against itself will not stand, but in the meanwhile we had to hang together or else we would be hung separately.
With the 20th Century, the costs and benefits of isolating ourselves to the western hemisphere were changed by advances in transportation, trade patterns, and then by the rise of global ideologies, first international communism and then global jihad. It would be good for those who are involved in the debate over where we should define our national interests to do more than simply say “war bad” or “democracy good.”
Conservatives are aware of the propaganda machine, and aren’t buying into it anymore.
Liberals, who are generally not as smart as conservatives, are pushed around on every issue. They were against war, now they are for it. They were against government control, now they demand it, etc.
Liberals are easily manipulated. Conservatives, not as much.
I agree. The vast expenditure of wealth and young lives in adventurism abroad over many decades has weakened us to the point where we will collapse as every empire before us has, and for exactly the same reason.
Israel can and will take care of itself. We should do nothing more than allow weaponry sales and give diplomatic support.
It’s propaganda that Israel was blatenly attacked?
Iran. Turkey. Lebanon.
I'm more interested in why our intelligence failed as it's been planned since August.
I disagree.
Women and children killed in both conflicts.
Israel lost 700 people to the smaller Hamas. Ukraine 70,000 people to the larger Russia.
So I don't see that the war in Israel is a greater evil than that in Ukraine.
Fortunately, Israel does not need massive funds.
Some 20 years ago, the Christian Science Monitor said that the total value of all our aid to Israel, adjusted by inflation, was about $2 trillion (up to that point). It's been a lot more since then.
And that was before the financial and human cost of our war in Iraq, which Israel's lobby urged us to enter.
No it did not, that is a lie. Neo- C[s here did, you are conflating the 2. /e stupid Iran war was bad for Israel, ot removed a check on Iran.
We agree.
Israel is our problem, Ukraine wasn’t.
We borrowed billions of dollars from China to help Ukraine as the Bidens were beholden due to the multi-million-dollar bribe old traitorous, brainless Joe and his drug-addled son pressured for.
Excellent point! No presstitutes are asking that simple question.
Many Jewish charities and NGOs (Israelis included) eagerly helped import those Muslims into the West, because of their fear and hatred of white Christendom.
But now those Muslims are celebrating Hamas, so it doesn't seem like such a good idea in retrospect.
For the record, Israel *created* Hamas initially to offset the Arafat problem.
Israel to Hamas, is like CIA to Antifa.
“...And they met in a place called, Armageddon”
And we aren’t going .....
Israel provides intel to help us fight their enemies for them. And sometimes their intel is disinformation (i.e., a lie). Israel falsely claimed Saddam was close to acquiring nukes, to trick us into the Iraq War.
and is the only country in the middle east that’s keeping the Muslim shxtheads in any check.
Israeli charities and NGOs actually assist in transporting migrants into Europe, so they're only "keeping them in check" in their own country.
“ I
say take whatever steps necessary
to rid this planet of those that
have no regard for human life.”
You’d better pack a lunch. It’s a big planet. And there are billions of savages who have no regard for human life.
Great post. It deserves its own thread!
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