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To: Hieronymus; Jonty30
No. The reason why Christianity and Judaism is different from all other religions is because of the teaching of abiding by consequences, otherwise known as holiness.
I don’t know enough about other religions to affirm or deny anything about them beyond saying that your hypothesis sounds interesting and that your definition of holiness is interesting and idiosyncratic, at least from a Catholic perspective. .

Jonty30 would have to explain what he means, for the idea of "holiness" being a goal is certainly not restricted to Christianity and Judaism (thus there is the title " His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama") but what this means is where differences would be.

I am not much acquainted with scope of beliefs on this among various faiths, however in Scripture holiness is not simply that of avoiding moral defilement, but that of being faced with the temptations of pleasure, position and prestige and overcoming such, and all that would be a denial of penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating effectual faith in crucified and risen Lord Jesus. (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9)

Which faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and is shown in baptism and following the Lord of all. (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27,28) And those who die in that obedient faith will go to be forever with Him at death or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39)

30 posted on 09/28/2023 5:13:53 AM PDT by daniel1212 (As a damned+destitute sinner turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves souls on His acct + b baptized 2 obey H)
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To: daniel1212

I define holiness as an awareness of consequences and abiding by them to live a good life, while improving society.

The more holy a person is, the more the smaller consequences matter. For example, you might choose to not participate in premarital sex because her father will kill you if he finds out. That’s not the best reason to avoid pre-marital sex, but it does show an awareness and a willingness to abide by the consequences of your actions.

You might choose to not participate in pre-marital sex because of the possibility of an STD transmission. That’s a better reason than her father finding out and it’s still not the deepest reason. However, such a person could be said to be more holy than the first guy, even if he still isn’t holy.

You might choose to participate in pre-marital sex because of the risk of a baby being conceived. That’s a better reason than then first two and it shows a deeper awareness of your consequences than the other two, even if it is still metaphysically not the best reason. Such a person can be said to be more holy than the previous people, even if he isn’t holy by definition.

You might choose to not participate in a pre-marital sex because you don’t want to hurt her. That’s a better reason than then previous people and it shows a deeper awareness of your consequences than the others, even if it is still metaphysically not the best reason. Such a person can be said to be more holy than the previous people, even if he isn’t holy by definition.

You might choose to not participate in pre-marital sex because you want to leave her in a state that she can present herself as her best to whomever becomes her husband. That’s a better reason than then previous people and it shows a deeper awareness of your consequences than the others, even if it is still metaphysically not the best reason. Such a person can be said to be more holy than the previous people, even if he isn’t holy by definition.

In my understanding, the more holy a person is, the less he wants to harm and the more he wants to benefit another person. He would consider the smallest consequences of harm in his choices of life. Even if we can quibble about my examples.


36 posted on 09/28/2023 5:28:00 AM PDT by Jonty30 (If liberals were truth tellers, they'd call themselves literals. )
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To: daniel1212

IIRC you give off strong Calvinist vibes, but there are a number of different shades of Calvinism, often in stark contrast with each other and the product of serious thought.

Some of them are very interesting on this question.

I’d like to give it more thought, but a lecture calls me to examine this topic much more concretely as exemplified in the life of David (and many other things exemplified in the life of this man after God’s own heart).


46 posted on 09/28/2023 6:07:02 AM PDT by Hieronymus
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