Posted on 09/03/2023 6:41:06 AM PDT by patriot torch
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
This ‘foundation of the world’ is
Katabole
is a Greek noun1that can mean21: https://www.bing.com/search?q=greek+word+katabole&form=MSNSB1&refig=e612c779c93e427e9a2e0a5c83fafcd7&mkt=en-us&sp=2&lq=0&qs=UT&pq=greek+word+kat&sk=MT1&sc=10-14&cvid=e612c779c93e427e9a2e0a5c83fafcd7
A throwing or laying down
The injection or depositing of the virile semen in the womb of the seed of plants and animals
A founding (laying down a foundation)
The word “kataballo” is formed from two words: the preposition “kata” joined to the verb “ballo”3. The preposition “kata” is used with two cases. When used with the genitive case, then it denotes vertical downward motion, the opposite of “ana” which refers to vertical upward motion3.
It is referencing the casting down/overthrow of Lucifer ... Those children in the spirit bodies that stayed loyal to the Heavenly Father are the ‘saints’/chosen since the flesh age began.
A pretrib rapture surrenders creation to satan.
In what way?
Faith, HOPE and love and the greatest of these is LOVE.
All three are core characteristics of followers of Christ. None of them exist apart from the other.
Are you posting that in defense of a predestination belief?
If so, my response would be, it was the plan of salvation that was predestined before the foundation of the world, not the individual (1’st Peter 19-20). Because each of us are born and created with free will.
Unless I misunderstood your post?
quote:
“A pretrib rapture surrenders creation to satan.”
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Do I even dare to ask for supporting Scripture?
Quote:
“Faith, HOPE and love and the greatest of these is LOVE.
All three are core characteristics of followers of Christ. None of them exist apart from the other.”
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In agreement.
Perfect!
Not really true if one backs up and takes a larger view.
Since the cross, countless believers have experienced martyrs deaths in assorted tribulations. They died in tribulation but not the Great One.
As we go back and forth on this thread, believers in Africa and Asia have likely been martyred. For them, tribulation came and they did not escape because the rapture is only an escape from the Great Tribulation.
The Thessalonians were under persecution and fearful that they had missed the rapture. Paul had to write a letter to them letting them know that they did not miss the rapture, they were just enduring a lesser tribulation.
Similarly, the way America is going, many who believe in the rapture may discover that tribulation has come for them but not necessarily the Great Tribulation.
Scripture indicates the rapture will happen suddenly and at any time but not necessarily in our time. Therefore, every believer must be prepared to endure whatever assorted tribulations may come along before the Big One.
Why is that so obvious to you? Help me out. Don't hold back.
There are 12 tribes of Israel
What of what I have posted causes you to believe I don't know how many tribes of Israel there are?
Again I gave you the name of each tribe ... two of them will NOT be represented by name in the 144,000 ... Even today the Heavenly Father knows where these individual tribes literal are and they have never been folded in to Judah.
I think the tribulation is unsupported by scripture, as in it doesn’t happen.
Does your bible not end with a book called Revelation?
What is it with you people posting religion in chat? Is there no moderation anymore? This goes in religion.
I think his point was that not all Israelites are Jewish, only those from the Kingdom of Judah (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and part of Levi).
quote:
“I think the tribulation is unsupported by scripture, as in it doesn’t happen.”
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Response:
OK
quote:
What is it with you people posting religion in chat? Is there no moderation anymore? This goes in religion.
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Is that like saying “you people” belong in the back of the bus?
Why chime in?
quote:
“I think his point was that not all Israelites are Jewish, only those from the Kingdom of Judah (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and part of Levi).”
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Rev. 3:
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
“Does your bible not end with a book called Revelation?”
Why yes it does but that isn’t in there unless I pretend it’s there.
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