Someone who loves the founding is proud to say so.
Your disrespect of their memory throughout this discussion has been clear.
[ProgressingAmerica #224] This is a tame version of what you might see, and the Founders couldn't even be named specifically(as a group) here, which is a bit shameful. We know who you're talking about with the fathers and grandfathers comment.
"What is shameful about a state, or group of states, wanting independence?"
Abraham Lincoln stated,
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable—a most sacred right—a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit.Lincoln expressly stated that the right to shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better is not confined to cases of a whole people, but that any portion of such people may make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit. What is shameful about what Lincoln said?
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[ProgressingAmerica #236] Do you love the Founding Fathers or not? Let's be direct here.[ProgressingAmerica #236] Do you love the Founding or not?
When you work up the courage, I would love answers to my questions.
[ProgressingAmerica #247] Someone who loves the founding is proud to say so. Your disrespect of their memory throughout this discussion has been clear.
Clearly, you are too much of a coward to defend your attribution of shame to people who sought independence, precisely as Abraham Lincoln said "Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit." Your cowardice manifests itself by your desperate attempt to divert away from your claim that seeking independence is shameful.
Did Lincoln advocate for things that were shameful? Do you believe the Founders actions were shameful? Apparently you do. You have expressed your belief that doing what the Founders did was shameful.
So who do you "know" was being spoken of with reference to fathers and grandfathers?
When did you stop beating your dog?