Posted on 07/04/2023 3:59:47 PM PDT by ganeemead
Western weapons apparently landing wherever Russian jamming signals send them....
Laser ring gyros are better but beyond a distance smart bombs/rockets/missiles become useless due to errors larger than CEP. so inertia guidance with gps correction works best. The problem is 2 fold. You can jam, from space air and ground large areas. The system errors will build based on how far from target jamming started. The bigger issue is spoofing where the intentionally draw weapons off targets to safer locations without the risk of a jammed weapon system getting lucky with error is minimal. No low to get around spoofing, jamming … well there are lots of ways honestly and we are finding some that are dirt cheap. Lots of highly accurate data coming from space in lots of frequencies, different data types but having time codes … I will let you think about that.
For the arm chair experts - how many satellites of the GPS constellation are required for sub meter accuracy? How many redundant are desired and on long ranges handoffs to other satellites during transition. I am no expert on all of this
I read the wiki page - no personal knowledge stated above that isn’t open source.
I get it. It is possible to jam gps signals if you spam a band with enough power. You will also have to jam from multiple directions to cover the array of different satellites also broadcasting. It can be done. But it’s not an easy thing to emplace multiple powerful jammers this way. A GPS munition can take different tracks to target. In practice the jammers would have to be deployed vs a defended point for complete signal coverage.
And drift depends on time. We are not talking hours here, but minutes or seconds, depending on the jammer directional coverage vs satellite coverage. GMLRS rockets go Mach 2.5 for 80Km, or maybe 2000km/hour over the altitude range in their trajectory. That’s not a lot of time to jam, given the certain lack of directional coverage given where such powerful jammers can be deployed - not within enemy artillery range, certainly, that’s within 12-20 km of the front. Or maybe even HIMARS range, these things too are targets, including their local generators, etc. And many of the jammers would have to be placed ahead of the jammer line, and would not be adequately covered by the other jammers. So let’s say a minute or less, maybe much less, for INS drift to work.
About 30 years ago a small aerospace company developed an artillery and mortar countermeasure. It detected an incoming round and then broadcast a signal to the fuze telling it the round was at the right height to detonate. The round would do so well before it was supposed to, rendering it much less harmful.
GPS jamming attempts go back 20 years or more.
This is not a new thing. The question is whether it is a substantial problem now.
That depends entirely on the fuse. It would be useless vs a mechanical fuse (the vast majority). It may work on a proximity airburst fuse.
So Russian jamming is overcoming satellite GPS signals to JDAM munitions, correct? Could a EC-121 orbiting overhead relay the GPS signal from the satellite to overcome Russian jammers?
The question is whether it is a substantial problem now.
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Read my linked articles- from our own defense agencies! GPS jamming and spoofing has been a problem for our military for awhile. Why else have we been investing millions to find a new system?
That said, our financial system is in jeopardy because every ATM uses GPS for time stamps- I took a required 40 hour instructional block on it back in 2019.It is real.
“Real” does not mean currently significant in Ukraine. “Real” can mean maybe someday soon. Maybe it is showing up in substantial way in Ukraine, and GPS munitions are being degraded in substantial numbers now, or they aren’t.
As for ATMs, someone would have to deploy GPS jammers, either weak ones by hand close to each ATM, or multiple powerful ones emplaced in US cities. The logistics and organization of such an attack seems implausible.
EC-121?
I haven’t seen one of those since 1965.
So Russian jamming is overcoming satellite GPS signals to JDAM munitions, correct? Could a EC-121 orbiting overhead relay the GPS signal from the satellite to overcome Russian jammers?
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Mis understood about GPS jamming. Jamming can occur, but spoofing is more likely ( note the Irans bringing down one of our best). Just one input out of a thousands degrades its accuracy. You will be surprised to know where some of those originate from.Some say its burst encryption is secure- but attacking its “ time “ inputs , for example, puts it off by up to miles. In layman’s terms, disruption of any of its thousands of INPUTS defeats it, period. The time inputs for example, by microseconds renders it useless. No other way to explain it.
The FACT remains our military is investing millions on a new system. Ask yourself why? We have never been confronted with an “ enemy “ as advanced as us, until Vlad entered the scene….
Make no mistake, this Ukie war with western equipment is benefiting Vlad far more than we know.
For better understanding, ponder what time is. Our GMT atomic clocks from Colorado have to be corrected from say GMT clocks from England, the difference is microseconds, but even elevation ( 5,000 ft and sea level) effects our atomic clocks, as does our magnetic fields. All atomic clocks, which is used in GPS requires correction… do note elevation effects time, do note we have a few C130’s the Talons that record every. Single . Analog and digital frequency on our planet- which is continuously burst encrypted to NSA. If we do it, Vlad does it, and Vlad hits the jackpot every time we send our surveillance drones just south of Crimea….essentially, Vlad learns more from our drones than the US learns about Vlad.
"the Pentagon has been pissing in their pants for a few years."
Looking at the article, there is nothing alarming. The US military is always looking for options to potential future threats and problems.
"Hint: Jamming is old tech, spoofing is the concern"
Both are true statements.
"that has been very, very successful."
When it comes to jamming GPS guided weapons, when? The RUSI paper /a> speculated GPS jamming might be a problem, not that it is a problem.
How about E-7?(had to look it up!). Planes and tactics change but old airmen, myself included, often don’t keep up!
Ummmm - electronic interference doesn’t care about encryption....
Yeh, I’m being schooled on the subject by several others now. I think I have a better handle on it now. Thanks!
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