Posted on 04/13/2023 7:59:48 AM PDT by SteveH
the federal social security system is a lie. you can find out about how it is bankrupt by 2030 any day of the week by just picking up a newspaper and reading the headlines.
paying a vendor who has lied about his or her or its product is called STEALING. It is prohibited by social convention (such as the 8th commandment, the koran, verse 5:38, and furtum in Roman common law) and so broadly understood to be morally wrong.
so why should people be required to stand by and allow their social security to be stolen from them in the forseeable future??
how about if everyone can get an estimate of the (stochastic, to borrow a term) value of their social security now, apply for it, and obtain it in a reasonably short amount of time (eg 4 weeks)??
if we know that a train will become a wreck in a time certain, then it is criminal and morally wrong to force us to stay on the train until it is wrecked and all hope of retrieving the value of the amounts held in trust is dissipated.
can the US government be held accountable in courts of law for this THEFT???
could this become the basis of a class action lawsuit???
That would be the equivalent of the biggest bank-run the world has ever seen. Fed.gov certainly won't allow that.
That would be the “Mother of all bank runs”, and would result in your payout being made worthless by Venezuelan style hyper-inflation.
You beat me by 17 seconds! Good job.
if a class action lawsuit is not possible, then imho a law should be passed allowing retirees to borrow against their individual social security accounts, since it is (after all) their money that is (allegedly) being held in trust for them by the federal government, and as retirees they have reached an age by which the “account” has “matured.”
i would go a step further and institute no penalty be ascribed for people who borrow against their social security account but do not repay; the only adverse action needed being non-payment of their monthly social security benefit.
if students are allowed to skate on their federal student loans, then retirees should be in front of them in the line, since students have no skin in the game and thus certainly less moral justification for receiving what amounts to be free money from the federal government while retirees who have already given social security payments to the federal government and are relying on those payments for their well being are forced to live under freeway overpasses.
The short answer is- no you cannot sue or claim theft. Many years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that Social Security payments are taxes. So the government can do what they want and say what they want to say, without fear of legal complications. To even the most causal observer, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
> That would be the “Mother of all bank runs”, and would result in your payout being made worthless by Venezuelan style hyper-inflation.
If it hastens the coming of the second Pinochet and condemns more hardcore commies to one way helicopter rides, who am i to complain?
Social Security is not going to “go broke”. It will be adjusted using the by now standard CPI adjustment and raising the retirement age ploys. But it is not going to suddenly stop sending out checks (direct deposit these days). YMMV.
As for people that complain about the government stealing their social security, get over it. The money was never yours the instant it came out of your paycheck.
.
They don’t care about you, in fact, they pretty much detest us.
Any Union Pension, they save.
They are paying Pensions in Ukraine.
They have been moving money to the big Cities, even though they know the money is flushed down the toilet on programs designed to scam, and they’ll need more Cash in 12 months.
It’s worse than people think.
.
>>all hope of retrieving the value of the amounts held in trust is dissipated.
There is no “lockbox”, the government never held anything “in trust”.
>>can the US government be held accountable in courts of law for this THEFT???
No. Government benefits are not an obligation (except, apparently, to non-citizens) and can be withdrawn at any time. I’m fairly sure courts have already ruled on this.
> The short answer is- no you cannot sue or claim theft. Many years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that Social Security payments are taxes. So the government can do what they want and say what they want to say, without fear of legal complications. To even the most causal observer, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Is the argument that the Supremes are infallible, like the pope?
—Because I have an 1857 counterexample for you...
“bankrupt by 2030”
Well, not quite bankrupt by 2030. But benefits will need to be cut not long after that, since politicians won’t do anything to fix the issue.
> As for people that complain about the government stealing their social security, get over it. The money was never yours the instant it came out of your paycheck.
I sense that fairly soon, coming to a feral government agency near you, the same will apply to the US federal reserve note.
“we, your federal reserve overlords, can f*ck you over 6 ways to sunday, since congress bestowed upon us the power to print federal reserve notes, and there is not a f*cking thing you can do about it.”
coming very soon, to a feral government agency near you!
Social Security is neither an investment, an insurance policy nor a contract. It is a tax and social spending program which Congress can modify or even cancel at any time. Your only replose is a political one by changing Congress.
The money taken from you over your lifetime is long gone and your only hope of getting money out is by taking it from future generations of workers. It's a Ponzi scheme backed up by guns.
“obtain it in a reasonably short amount of time”
LOL, you can’t do a “bank run” on the federal government. And no, you can’t just sue them to get your money. The lawsuit would be tossed out of court unless you have followed the proper procedure to petition the proper agency to address your grievance, and that agency didn’t handle it properly. And since you are not actually being denied any money that is due to you (yet), you have no actual damages to sue for anyway, only speculative damages at some nebulous point in the future. That’s not actionable.
You have a better chance figuring out how much they will screw you for, putting together a team of similar disgruntled geriatrics, and robbing a federal bank to get your money. Worst case scenario they catch you, and then they have to pay your room, board and medical expenses anyway.
Replose -> reply, or maybe response. I was distracted by a squirrel while editing it.
The chief justice of that court died almost exactly six month before Abraham Lincoln and did not see the end of the civil war said events triggered.
Looking like you might have to settle out of court...
“As for people that complain about the government stealing their social security, get over it.”
Nobody’s going to “get over it”. People don’t appreciate getting screwed, even if you say “hey, it said in the fine print you were going to get screwed”.
But, you know, the Boomers could have avoided this scenario if they just let the system get fixed when it could have been done painlessly, 20-30 years ago. Instead they made it a “3rd rail of politics” to ensure it would never get fixed. Yes, the rest of us will get screwed too, but it will be fun watching the Boomers get screwed first.
> Social Security is neither an investment, an insurance policy nor a contract. It is a tax and social spending program which Congress can modify or even cancel at any time. Your only replose is a political one by changing Congress.
> The money taken from you over your lifetime is long gone and your only hope of getting money out is by taking it from future generations of workers. It’s a Ponzi scheme backed up by guns.
Actually this inspired my proposal not to refund or continue social security but merely to modify it to allow the granting of loans to retirees, and furthermore, put a guarantee on it that all retirees’ benefits be covered before a single penny goes to compensation for reneged student loans.
all i am saying is
f*ck student loan scofflaws FIRST.
these lazy student loan scofflaws have their entire stochastically healthy life before them so they can always work for a living and repay their student loans.
what a concept.
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