Posted on 03/18/2023 4:39:36 PM PDT by DeathBeforeDishonor1
I’m unaware of a major actor doing this before though it probably has happened
The question baring more info
Is where do actors liability start and masters end
I’m not sure there is law specifically for that
This case will likely change that in any event
Before this case, I assumed the guns were fake or disabled.
For example, I have a few antique rifles on my living room walls - I’ve removed the bolts or firing pins, so I don’t have to worry about grandchildren, etc..
I thought the guns used on movie sets were the same. Go figure.
Err-mmm. It is not that simple.
Every action movie ever made violates several basic "rules" of gun safety.
Start with: "these guns are not loaded". Oops. This one was. Somebody screwed up badly. Several "somebodies", in fact.
Continue with: "intentionally point the gun at another actor, or the camera, and pretend to shoot". In most States that action is a felony if other people object. In a movie, that action is part of the script.
Yes, the film industry operates under different rules. See "Industry Safety Bulletin #1". Do those rules get any consideration under State laws? That is an open question for this case to dance around.
Baldwin was not following the industry safety standards.
No matter what the legalities are or anything else,
Baldwin OWNS the round that went downrange.
End of story.
Never made any movies or did any force on force training have you.
Guns as firing props are actual real guns with low charge soft wadding blanks
Some are reproduction but some sticklers really use 1873 peacemakers in good order and smith and Wesson 44 Russian etc
The second this happened I called one of my best pals who lives in los feliz and produces movies and is a quiet conservative libertarian
He said pronto the master effed up
And rare is an actor or actress knows how to check cylinder. Or clip or mag on a firearm
Though some know and do
We both agreed Baldwin likely was ignorant how
And she still owes him $300,000 I believe...
I’m self-trained, and only have a few rifles, so my knowledge is limited, but given how deadly firearms are, I find it hard to believe anyone could own a gun and not educate themselves at the very least on how to tell if the chamber is clear or the magazine is empty.
It’s the very first thing I needed to know about my guns. But I guess there are all types of people.
“I’m self-trained, and only have a few rifles, so my knowledge is limited, but given how deadly firearms are, I find it hard to believe anyone could own a gun and not educate themselves at the very least on how to tell if the chamber is clear or the magazine is empty.”
You still don’t point it at someone even if you know the gun isn’t loaded. Always handle the gun as if it is loaded. Even when it isn’t.
That too.
Most of these actors don’t own or know guns except on the set
They are not like us as you said
It’s unusual one would know enough to know how to check and it’s not customary
They usually rely on the armorer
Exceptions exist of course we can likely guess who they are
Tom selleck
Kurt Russell
And so on
I’ve heard people make the argument that you need real guns to make the scene believable. That is insane if it’s true… it means for the sake of better entertainment, they are willing to put people’s lives at risk.
Besides, they can make anything look real with computers… it just makes no sense.
As much as we all hate Baldwin, I don't think he's guilty of manslaughter for killing Halyna Hutchins, but he is guilty as an executive producer for the sloppy and almost non-existent safety protocols on set, and for forcing first-time head armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed to double as a property master, not allowing her to be on the set with the firearms at all times when they were not locked up.
I think Hannah also has some culpability for allowing the set firearms to be used with live ammunition in the previous days, and for not ensuring the accident weapon was properly cleared.
First I’ve heard some that
If true that lends criminality I admit
They were rehearsing, blocking shots for the camera. That's why the director and the cinematographer were both shot from a single bullet that passed through the cinemaphotographer Hutchins and struck director Sousa. They were both lined up behind the camera's viewfinder looking at the framing.
As for the arguing and such, I don't have any knowledge of that, but they were rehearsing and framing shots in preparation for filming, it wasn't as if Baldwin just walked up to Hutchins and shot her.
My thought was that Balwin did two or three deliberate acts to threaten/scare the woman. It goes way beyond just brandishing. He has committed, at least, malicious manslaughter. He should be sentenced to at least ten to twenty.
Yes, they’d string Trump up for that.
Hannah was involved with cinematography. She may have
complained but she wasn’t responsible to my knowledge.
It’s good to say that I’m just a member of the public
saying what I think should happen.
Someone died, and I don’t like that happening without
some repercussions.
Folks had just that morning talked about lax safety.
I admit to being a little angry about this related
to that, no matter who it was.
I’ve tried to be somewhat understanding of Baldwin
too. In early comments at the time, I made some
comments that were more understanding.
Hanna was the Armorer. She was responsible for the firearms on set. But she was also made to perform other props duties in addition to her Armorer job, which shouldn't have happened.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23689815-statement-of-h-gutierrez-reed
January 31, 2023STATEMENT
The filed probable cause statement reveals that the district attorney has completely misunderstood the facts and has reached the wrong conclusions. Hannah pleaded to provide more firearms training. She was denied and brushed aside. Hannah asked to be able to perform her armorer duties more for safety reasons. She was told by production to focus on props. Hannah asked Halls if they could us a plastic gun for the rehearsal scene and he said no, wanting a “real gun.” Hannah asked to be called back into the church if Baldwin was going to use the gun at all and Halls failed to do that. Yet the district attorney has given Halls a 6 month probation misdemeanor and charged Hannah and Baldwin with felony offenses carrying at least 5 years in prison. The tragedy of this is had Hannah just been called back into the church by Halls, she would have performed the inspection and prevented this tragedy. We will fight these charges and expect that a jury will find Hannah not guilty.
Jason Bowles
Bowles Law FirmTodd J. Bullion
Law Office of Todd J. BullionAttorneys for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed
What this letter doesn't address is how a live round was in the gun in the first place, or why live ammunition was on the set at all.
Reports were that members of the crew were shooting the firearms with live ammunition in the desert in previous days. If true, this never should have been allowed to happen with prop firearms at any time while they were also being used for the production.
Thank you. I must have mixed up the names. I was seeking
to address the person who has killed, and thought this was
that person.
Sorry for the error.
“...Holding the trigger back then fanning the hammer will quickly fire all six cylinders.” [OldWarBaby, post 16]
“It was a Uberti Single Action Army clone. 100% like the original in function...if the trigger is pulled prior to cocking the hammer it will fire when the hammer is released. This is called slip firing, and several gun fighters tied back the trigger and modified the hammer spur to do just that. Elmer Keith wrote about this, back in the day.” [Tijeras_Slim, post 31]
Fanning fires only one chamber at a time. But it can offer quicker follow-up shots than working the arm with just one hand.
Delighted to see someone citing Elmer Keith on this. He also wrote that some users had the trigger removed. It was still possible to cycle the arm by hammer manipulation alone.
Colt’s Single Action is notorious for parts breakage and “accidental” discharges. How they’ve survived lawsuits, I have no idea.
The trigger and the hammer notches are small and delicate. It’s quite possible to let the hammer slip by mistake when cocking; the trigger’s sear tip can fracture, the “safety” notch and loading notch on the hammer can beak clean away. then the hammer won’t stop until it falls all the way, almost surely setting off any round that is lined up with the barrel.
Wear & tear, and aging, can make these failures more likely.
Foolishly, many users keep their finger in the trigger guard while cycling such revolvers. It’s simple to jerk the trigger, or hold it back, without even being aware - especially when one is startled or distracted. Even experienced shooters sometimes blunder in this manner, then insist they didn’t touch the trigger.
Until 1973, Ruger manufactured many Blackhawks and Single Six Revolvers with similar lockwork. Careless gunplay and sloppy attention to safety rules resulted in so many “accidental” discharges, and such intense legal action, that they reworked the design, adding a transfer bar activated when the trigger was held back deliberately. Their New Model single actions have been sold that way ever since.
None of the news coverage, nor “expert” commentary, has mentioned any of the quirks and limitations of original-pattern revolvers. No technical details have emerged, beyond the conclusion of the FBI investigators that the revolver on the set of Rust was in proper working order.
Actors are infamous for ignoring rules. Someone of Alec Baldwin’s status can be even worse. Gun safety rules that us lesser mortals take so seriously make no impression on him. So he probably is being as truthful as he can be; he wouldn’t even remember what he was doing with the trigger.
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