Source please. Has Zelensky said that Ukraine will never join NATO? Has it been added to the Ukrainian Constitution? Has Ukraine withdrawn from its partnership with NATO? Has NATO renounced that partnership designation of 2020? Has Zelensky included his no-NATO policy in his peace plan?
As for Cuba, we had no issue with Soviet troops in Cuba, nor did we have any issue with defensive weapons in Cuba. What we had an issue with was the Soviets introducing into Cuba OFFENSIVE nuclear missiles capable of striking the entirety of the lower 48 of the US (with the exception of a small slice in the Pacific northwest), all of Mexico and Central America and the Caribbean, and most of South America.
LOL. Are Russian submarines armed with nuclear missiles stationed off the coast of the US in international waters (12 mile limit) an offensive threat? What should we do about it? The US has used the Monroe Doctrine on multiple occasions to establish a sphere of influence. The Russians are doing the same thing in Ukraine. It does not want a NATO controlled Ukraine along their 1,500 mile common border.
Remember when the Obama/Biden administration cancelled the stationing of missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic under pressure from Russia?
As for the Warsaw Pact, you seem to lack the facts. The 1956 Hungarian Revolution involved an uprising against the Stalinist regime in Hungary. A new prime minister, Imre Nagy, took office on October 24, 1956 and announced the new government’s intent to WITHDRAW Hungary from the Warsaw Pact and establish free elections, and the Soviets ordered the Red Army in Hungary to quash the uprising. Then, on November 1, 1956 Nagy formally announced Hungary’s withdrawal from the Warsaw Pact and declared Hungary’s neutrality, and the Soviets invaded.
On 23 October 1956, the Secretary of the Hungarian Working People's Party, Ernő Gerő, asked for the USSR's military intervention in order "to suppress a demonstration that was reaching an ever-greater and unprecedented scale", which threatens the national security of the Hungarian People's Republic. To that end, the USSR already had planned the invasion and occupation of Hungary, and the political purging of Hungarian society.
So why didn't Eisenhower respond by helping the nascent free country of Hungary?
You mention a proxy war. Yes, Ukraine is a proxy war for the West; just as Korea was a proxy war by the Soviets and initially a proxy war by the ChiComs until the ChiComs decided to actively join the fight; and just as Vietnam was a proxy war by the Soviets and the ChiComs. Proxy wars have been around since antiquity, and are rather common. Almost all wars have an element of a proxy war. It is how the game is played.
Proxy wars don't always work out as expected. Nor does the rationale for entering them age well. It isn't a game. Our blood and treasure are invested along with the future of this country.
How, I am firmly opposed to having US boots on the ground in Ukraine in a combat role and/or US helmets in the air over Ukraine in a combat role.
But the policies you support can result in that happening. We are prolonging an unwinnable war. Russia has drawn red lines because Russia shares a 1,500 mile border with Ukraine. They are not going to back down. We need a negotiated settlement sooner rather than later if we really care about the Ukrainian people. Like a trainer who sees his fighter hopeless outmatched with too much courage for his own good, it is time to throw in the towel and stop the fight.
“Source please.”
“Has Zelensky said that Ukraine will never join NATO?”
I explained to you earlier that there is no such thing as “never” in geo-politics.
“Has it been added to the Ukrainian Constitution?”
Is it in the Ukrainian constitution that Ukraine WILL become a NATO member?
“Has Ukraine withdrawn from its partnership with NATO?”
Why would it? A partnership is no conceivable threat to Russia.
“Has NATO renounced that partnership designation of 2020?”
See above.
“Has Zelensky included his no-NATO policy in his peace plan?”
I haven’t seen his peace plan, nor have you, as it has not been published. I expect we’ll see something after he meets with Xi.
“Are Russian submarines armed with nuclear missiles stationed off the coast of the US in international waters (12 mile limit) an offensive threat?”
As are ours sitting out in the depths an offensive threat to Russia.
You are trying to equate conditions in 1962 with conditions today. That is folly (but something you engage in).
“What should we do about it?”
Continue what we’re doing. We’re tracking them, and we’ve got sneaky Petes following them, of that you can be sure.
“The Russians are doing the same thing in Ukraine.”
No one was bitching about Russian subs in the Black Sea within striking distance of Ukraine. What people ARE bitching about is that Russia INVADED a country it WANTS to be in its sphere of influence.
“Remember when the Obama/Biden administration cancelled the stationing of missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic under pressure from Russia?”
Yeah, a capitulation that only emboldened Russia.
“So why didn’t Eisenhower respond by helping the nascent free country of Hungary?”
As I explained to you previously, we had a policy on not getting involved in internal Warsaw Pact issues.
“Proxy wars don’t always work out as expected.”
A lot of things don’t work out as expected. It’s called life.
“Nor does the rationale for entering them age well.”
It depends, doesn’t it? The USSR thought its proxy war against the US in Vietnam worked out great!
“It isn’t a game.”
Oh, for God’s sake. Are you that naïve? Geo-politics has been called The Big Game for ages.
You are starting to argue just for the sake of arguing.
If you have anything substantive, trot it out. If not, I’m going to bed.
Good night.