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To: Jan_Sobieski

Frank Write, whoever the hell he is, wrote, in part (and you citing him): “...in addition, a heavily reinforced defensive line was built down the eastern flank of Ukraine..”.
So, Ukraine built a defensive line to attack Russia, and that is one of the reasons Russia was provoked into this war? It doesn’t make any sense. A dog barking loud enough would provoke Russia...


8 posted on 02/15/2023 3:00:27 PM PST by exinnj
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To: exinnj

You must of missed the part where Robert Kagan admitted His wife, Victoria Nuland, fomented the 2014 Euromaiden Revolution in Ukraine which installed a neoliberal, Western-oriented government. He openly admits that Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine.


15 posted on 02/15/2023 3:25:56 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: exinnj

“Ukraine built a defensive line to attack Russia, and that is one of the reasons Russia was provoked”

Just like the French Maginot line forced Germany to invade in 1940. WWII - it was all provoked by French insistence on defending themselves.


20 posted on 02/15/2023 3:40:09 PM PST by Justa (If where you came from is so great then why aren't Floridians moving there?)
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To: exinnj

Just guessing here, off the cuff riffing, but “a heavily reinforced defensive line was built down the eastern flank of Ukraine” could be thought of as a provocation if Russia considers that region as it’s sovereign territory, or at least disputed, territory. It’s probably one of the reasons Putin held a referendum (whatever you think of its legalities). The people in that region are largely Russian speakers; maybe Russian Orthodox Church members, ethnically Russian vs ethnically Ukrainian. And now Zelensky has reportedly taken pretty serious anti-Russian ethnic line such as banning Russian language and crackdowns on some churches and the like.

It could be argued as an outside observer that it is “disputed territory” though I would perhaps not go that far since it wasn’t really disputed much or not very loudly; except to say that all of Europe’s borders have changed and been in dispute since before the rise of the Roman empire. And of course, Russia did invade Ukraine back during the Obama years without much of a peep from the west. That was some kind of signal - either that we quietly agreed, or that we didn’t think it was worth fighting over. Either way, our government now sure has a different attitude about it today - even arguing that Ukraine should take back the territory taken during Obama’s term.


24 posted on 02/15/2023 5:35:14 PM PST by monkeyshine (live and let live is dead)
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