Replies

I posted in Festival mistakenly, bringing the comments over here:

Publius:
“There are only two circumstances where the military will come out to the barracks to take over. One is nuclear war, and the other is civil war.”

Farcesensitive:
We are already in a civil war.

Publius:
I’m talking about a situation where there is total anarchy and breakdown of civil society. When you see night riding militias battling with no attempt to curtail them by usual law enforcement, then you have the kind of civil war to which the EO refers.
Right now we’re in a pre-civil war condition. When you and your neighbors set up fully manned defensive perimeters, then you have a real civil war.

Farcesensitive:
The other side is burning and looting and everything else while preventing law enforcement from stopping them.
They have stolen and occupied our government.

We are in a civil war and the military is derelict in its duty.

Publius:
No on both counts.

In the aftermath of the racial unpleasantness of 1967-68, the NSC undertook a study of what would constitute a race war, i.e., a subset of civil war, and how the federal government would react to it. From this, the Johnson Administration issued an executive order laying out the mechanism for a federal reaction, and this EO has been kept up to date by subsequent administrations. The eventual creation of FEMA was a part of this reaction mechanism.

The initial reaction to a rebellion situation would involve a declaration of emergency or even martial law, the deployment of National Guard troops, and perhaps even an Army or Marine supplement. At that point a 48 hour clock would start to tick. If there was organized resistance to federal military intervention, such as paramilitary squads attacking troops, or if it became impossible to quell the rebellion in general, then the next step would be the internment of the inhabitants of the affected area. All this would be directed by presidential order authorizing the military to take these steps.

We almost came to that in 1992 during the Rodney King affair in South-Central Los Angeles. Fortunately, the appearance of National Guard, Army and Marines caused the inhabitants of that neighborhood to put on their halos. The 48 hour clock never got very far.

What you want is for the military to come out of the barracks, execute a coup and overthrow the civilian government. The optics of that would be horrendous.

The military can only take over in a civil strife situation only when the president authorizes it, or a nuclear war situation where the civilian government has been decapitated or obliterated entirely. I suspect we’re only a few months away from the latter.

Farcesensitive:
You say only the President can authorize the military to fight back in the civil war.

That’s very convenient for the enemy that has stolen the office.

You are wrong and the military is wrong.
If we play by those rules the enemy has already won and we have surrendered.

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I’ve saved this on my desktop for a long time.

https://policy.defense.gov/portals/11/documents/hdasa/references/insurrection_act.pdf

Insurrection Act
10 U.S.C. §§ 331-335

Sec. 331. Federal aid for State governments
Whenever there is an insurrections in any State against its government, the President
may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be
convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number
requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to
suppress the insurrection.

Sec. 332. Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or
assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable
to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial
proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use
such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress
the rebellion.

Sec. 333. Interference with State and Federal law

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means,
shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any
insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States
within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege,
immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the
constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right,
privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes
the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the
equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

Sec. 334. Proclamation to disperse

Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under
this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents or those
obstructing the enforcement of the laws to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes
within a limited time.

Sec. 335. Guam and Virgin Islands included as “State”
For purposes of this chapter, the term “State” includes Guam and the Virgin Islands.

https://law.justia.com/codes/us/1999/title18/parti/chap115/sec2383

SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES
Sec. 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.