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To: Boogieman
Because NATO doesn’t have, and never has had, any ambition of conquering Russia. We are perfectly happy to let the Russians try to manage that mess themselves.

Anything you say, Stepan.      

14 posted on 12/21/2022 1:00:47 PM PST by kiryandil (put yer vote in the box, chump. HARHARHARHAR)
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To: kiryandil

And yet, despite you posting that same image for the thousandth time, NATO still has never invaded Russia, nor has NATO ever conquered an inch of territory from Russia.


18 posted on 12/21/2022 1:16:27 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: kiryandil; Boogieman
Baker made that "not one inch" statement several times during the negotiations concerning the status of a reunified Germany. It was clearly regarding the negotiated status of East and West Germany. In fact, the last time Baker said it was in the form of a question, directly to Gorbachev:

"Would you prefer to see a united Germany outside of NATO, independent and with no U.S. forces or would you prefer a unified Germany to be tied to NATO, with assurances that NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift one inch eastward from its present position? He (Gorbachev) answered that the Soviet leadership was giving real thought to all such options

Gorbechev himself confirmed this:

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.” Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”

People have argued otherwise, but both President Gorbechev, and his Minister of Foreign Affairs, Eduard Shevardnadze, have been clear they were not lied to. Both were critical of NATO expansion, but clear on exactly what they were negotiating. Ironically, Shevarednadze became President of Georgia and led his country to join the Council of Europe in 1999 and declared its intention to join NATO in 2002, which brought about Russia's invasion in 2008.

54 posted on 12/21/2022 5:26:08 PM PST by ETCM (“There is no security, no safety, in the appeasement of evil.” — Ronald Reagan)
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To: kiryandil

The map of NATO’s “expansion” to the East you posted misses an important point.
Those eastern European countries became NATO members only after being brutally OCCUPIED by the Soviet Union - for decades!
Evidently when Russia lost the Cold War and finally withdrew from its previously colonized eastern EU countries - Eastern Europe ASKED to be protected by NATO - in case Russia had the intention to invade again...
As we all see ... If Ukraine had been in NATO it wouldn’t have been invaded today!
The NATO expansion to the East is not a choice by NATO. It was those Eastern countries who demanded that - in order to repel any renewed Russian aggression.
You failed to mention this, and it changes the whole perspective.


59 posted on 12/21/2022 6:08:35 PM PST by USA-FRANCE
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