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To: 4Zoltan
Exactly. The Founders considered those born in the Colonies as natives regardless of the parents.

I believe the root for natives and natal is the same, and i'm pretty sure it means "relating to birth."

So yes, people born in a place are natives in one understanding of the word.

Under English Common Law natives were natural born subjects.

Well yes they are, but we are not subjects, we are "citizens", and the meaning of the word "citizen" in the context in which we understand it, comes from Switzerland. It does not come from England. As I mentioned, Blackstone uses the term only 4 times if I recall properly, and all usages are in the context of being a city dweller, not a national.

"Citizen" is not an English term, it is a Swiss term.

Vattel’s definition for natives was not used by the Founders was it?

I believe he says indigenes, not "natives."

"Natives" is from the English translation, and it may not be quite accurate, but instead an approximation. You will find that much of the time people prefer brevity over accuracy.

Vattel - “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”

"Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens."

213 posted on 12/31/2022 2:16:44 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

All early (pre-1795) English translations of Vattel translated “Les naturels, ou indigenes” as the “natives, or indigenes”. Samuel Johnson’s dictionary from 1768 defines natives as natural and defines natural as native.

“Blackstone uses the term only 4 times if I recall properly, and all usages are in the context of being a city dweller, not a national.”

No. His chapter “Book the First : Chapter the Tenth : Of People, Whether Aliens, Denizens or Natives” defines the people.

He starts with “The first and most obvious division of the people is into aliens and natural-born subjects.” After describing natural-born subjects, he begins his description of aliens with “I shall however here endeavour to chalk out some of the principal lines, whereby they are distinguished from natives”. And he finishes the chapter with “THESE are the principal distinctions between aliens, denizens, and natives.”


214 posted on 12/31/2022 3:31:17 PM PST by 4Zoltan
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