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To: 4Zoltan
On the question of whether or not the Founders considered themselves to be natural born citizens.

This is not even being contested. The fact that they put in the constitution "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,"

Proves that they didn't consider themselves to be "natural born citizens."

192 posted on 12/29/2022 1:33:24 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
“ they didn't consider themselves to be "natural born citizens."”

Sure they did. Read the debates in the Constitutional Convention. But first consider this.

In July, 1785, John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson several letters. In the first he mentioned a treaty of commerce between the US and England.

I have given to Lord Carmarthen long ago, an Explanation of the power of Congress to form Treaties of Commerce…

In a second letter about a treaty of commerce with England, Adams wrote,

“The Britons alliens Duty is a very burthensome Thing, and they may carry it hereafter as far upon Tobacco, Rice Indigo and twenty other Things, as they do now upon oil. to obviate this, I think of Substituting, the Words “natural born Citizens of the United States,” and “natural born Subjects of Great Britain,” instead of “the most favoured Nation.”

On April 4th, 1786, Adams and Jefferson submitted a draft treaty of commerce to Lord Carmarthen,

My Lord

Agreably to your Lordships request expressed to one of us in Conversation, and again communicated to us through Mr. Fraser, we have drawn up the enclosed Project of a Treaty of Commerce, which we do ourselves the Honour to propose to the Consideration of his Majesty’s Ministers.

We have the honor to be

J Adams T: Jefferson

The treaty has this clause:

The Subjects of His Britannic Majesty may frequent all the Coasts and Countries Bay’s, Harbours, Creeks, Rivers and Ports of the United States of America, and reside and trade there, in all Sorts of Produce, Manufactures, and Merchandize, and Shall pay within the said United States, no other or greater Duties, Charges, or fees whatsoever than the natural born Citizens of the United States themselves are or shall be obliged to pay; and they shall enjoy all the Rights, Priviledges, and Exemptions in trade Navigation and Commerce which the natural born Citizens of the said United States do or shall enjoy.

Article 3 of the treaty had this clause:

…only as are or shall be paid by the natural-born subjects of Great Britain, in the Dominions of His Britannic Majesty, and the natural born Citizens of the said United States within their Dominions.

Who were the natural born citizens of the United States in 1786?

195 posted on 12/29/2022 11:05:08 PM PST by 4Zoltan
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