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To: skepsel; TexasFreeper2009; Gunslingr3; jeffersondem; Renfrew; Williams; freeandfreezing; MeganC; ...

Actually Lee did go full “ape” and it ensured the failure of his army.

I am currently reading The Killer Angels (A novel of the Civil War). It specifically focuses on the battle at Gettysburg, and the top officers of both sides. It was well researched, and the thoughts and feelings of these key officers is presented in chilling detail.

This was the first, and last, major excursion into enemy territory, and Lee was determined to make the most of it. He was apparently feeling the effects and drain of the heart condition that would eventually kill him. He was seriously betrayed by Jeb Stuart who ignored his orders to use his cavelry to travel widely, determine size and location of Union forces, and maintain reporting to Lee. Stuarts deriliction of duty was so severe several Generals wanted him court marshalled.

Lee ignored important pieces of advice from his best general, Longstreet, who pioneered military concepts of defensive warfare. Taking and holding high ground is an important military concept. On the second day Lee did not send troops south of Little Round Top and lacking those extra troops the rebels were unable to take this piece of high grounds with very heavy losses. On the third day Lee insisted a reluctant Longstreet attack the center of Cemetary Ridge, up a steep hill against dug in and well fortified troops. The losses were catastrophic, and the war returned to the south and never again in the next 2 years entered the north. That night and intense storm washed all the blood into the earth. The following day was the 4th of July.

Will Putin do any better if he decides to go full “ape,” or is he already doing that?


58 posted on 12/09/2022 11:11:22 AM PST by gleeaikin (Question authority!)
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To: gleeaikin

Thanks, but it was just a goof on “gorilla” war. πŸ˜‰


60 posted on 12/09/2022 11:40:35 AM PST by skepsel ("A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime", Mark Twain.)
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To: gleeaikin
Stuart may very well have been ignoring orders, but many of his units may have been lost or had a hard time figuring out where they were: no longer on home ground, they had no knowledge of the local terrain and certainly were not being assisted by the locals unlike in Virginia.

You know far more of the details about Gettysburg than I do, but I've thought for a long time that by Gettysburg Lee had become both impatient and arrogant about the ease with which he had defeated far larger Federal forces in Virginia. At Gettysburg all the home-court advantages and shorter lines of communication lay with the Federals, not the Confederates.

Putin faces a similar challenge in Ukraine: the Uke's obviously have shorter logistics and communication lines. They are also fighting for their homes and families, while fighting for Russia's glory doesn't really cut it in the cold and mud and heavy artillery. For all of Putin's talk of the Great Patriotic War, I doubt many Russian's buy into the notion that an independent Ukraine is a threat to Russia's existence.

61 posted on 12/09/2022 11:41:59 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: gleeaikin
β€œHe was seriously betrayed by Jeb Stuart who ignored his orders to use his cavelry to travel widely, determine size and location of Union forces, and maintain reporting to Lee.”

Set aside for a moment your one-sided appraisal of General Stuart's operation; there is no blinking away the fact that Gettysburg was a disaster for the CSA, and for the Constitution of the USA.

No known connection, but so far in 2022 over three thousand four hundred people have been shot down in the streets of Chicago.

And the year is not over.

66 posted on 12/09/2022 6:29:23 PM PST by jeffersondem
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