Posted on 12/01/2022 10:37:58 PM PST by blueplum
See #25. I already stated this and you ignored it.
“Elon has the right to censor. But it doesn’t change the fact that those sensitive to free speech are cry babies. We are falling right into their trap by capitulating to their bubble wrapped sensitivities.”
I trust you added that block to your quilt as an example of a historical pattern predating Hitler, not to affirm Nazism, as Kanye did. Context does matter.
The swastika is forever tainted, I’m afraid, and cannot be rehabilitated in the foreseeable future. The rainbow might be saved. I very much hope it can.
I do wish we could return “gay” to its old meaning. I hope we can, but it won’t be easy.
Words do change meaning over time. “Nice” for example:
https://www.etymonline.com/word/nice
“Passion” originally meant suffering, as in “the Passion of Christ” on the cross. Today, a remnant of the original meaning is contained in “compassion”, “ to suffer with”, but it’s rather watered down.
The old meanings of “nice” and “passion” do some truth-telling about the new ways they are used. Passion (as used today) can well involve suffering(!). Niceness (as we mean it now) can be shallow and faint-hearted. The old meaning of “gay” tells no truth about homosexuality. It’s a lie. And ironic. Homosexuality does not bring happiness.
Anyway, back to Elon and Kanye. See my posts #18 and #36:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4113330/posts?page=18#18
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4113330/posts?page=36#36
We don’t expect JimRob to allow every sort of free speech here on FR, do we? Those running a privately-owned forum or social media platform have to draw lines somewhere. We may disagree about where the lines should be drawn, but it seems to me Musk has gone in a good direction. He can only let it go so far before it turns into 8kun and becomes worthless and prone to lawsuits.
““Context and timing matter.”
It shouldn’t. Truth is constant.
“Your quilt is a historical artifact created before Hitler.”
It isn’t. I created it a couple years ago. The block is old — a variation on Rail Fence Block.
If swastika has bad connotations now — and it certainly does thanks to Hitler — then maybe it’s up to us to help turn that around. We shouldn’t capitulate to these people. It’s wrong that when we see a rainbow our first thought is “homosexual”; it should be a promise from God. It’s wrong that when he hear the word “gay” we think “homosexual”; we should think “happy”.
Caving to the thought police is wrong, and we need to change the wishy-washy “timing and context” cop-out to appease the bad guys.
Kanye’s stupid new symbol is a ridiculous result of an addled brain, and EVERYBODY knows that. No attention would be paid to it if they weren’t using it to take out Trump. They are using it for that purpose, and we’ll see how things shake out. God is in control.”
Exactly right, because freedom of religion will be right behind it...
Kanye isn’t bright enough to know ancient uses of a swastika.
Don’t give the dummy a break.
He’s just being a a$s and doing some Hitler admiring.
Now you are wanting it both ways. You say he has a right to censor, but also claim it’s “capitulating to crybabies”.
The reality is that the vast majority of people don’t want anything-goes free speech, or they’d all be hanging out on 8kun and the like. And the reality is that a legitimate social media site or forum is open to lawsuits concerning incitement to violence. Unlike dicey sites on the dark web that hide on dodgy foreign servers.
If you want to hang out on a platform where anything goes, there’s always 8kun.
Do you really think Musk should turn Twitter into 8kun? If not, then you have to admit he not only has a right to censor, he has a duty to stockholders and users to exercise some censorship. And stop criticizing him for doing so.
“Now you are wanting it both ways. You say he has a right to censor, but also claim it’s “capitulating to crybabies”.
No... It is only because of crybabies he is now censoring. If no one had been a crybaby about it then it would have been a nothing burger and ignored.
The cause and effect is in that order period...
What the crybabies are doing is holding the chisel for them and help as they sculpt their Communist masterpiece. When we should not let them manipulate us into our own demise.
See my #42:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4113330/posts?page=42#42
I’ll add this bit, though. Even if they weren’t using Kanye to throw shade on Trump, it would still be news as Kanye is a big celebrity and very famous. His previous antics when he went off his meds during Obama’s presidency were very much in the news.
It looks to me like Trump supporters would be glad Musk shut Kanye down before he could further embarrass himself and Trump. Just when the hoorah over the dinner was dying down, Alex Jones got it going again by getting Kanye and Milo on his show and letting Kanye make a fool of himself praising Hitler while wearing a creepy mask allegedly by Balenciaga. Then Kanye goes on Twitter and posts Nazi stuff. Elon shut it down.*
The mentally ill are often victims of unscrupulous grifters, and the rich and famous among them are preyed upon by grifters like Alex and Milo. The Alex Jones show hurt Trump. Soon shutting down Kanye helped him. Yet Freepers are praising Jones and condemning Musk. Go figure.
*Don’t forget Musk gave Kanye a second chance after he was banned for posting that he was about to “go death con on Jewish people” — clearly a threat of violence not protected as free speech.
So when will you be posting a swastika imposed on a Star of David on the front door of your abode? As you say “we can’t cave to the thought police.” You won’t do that because some things are so offensive that a liberal society rejects them. Kanye touched that third rail and Musk rightly booted him.
Confederating with fruitcakes like West will only bring defeat to conservatism. We must chose are allies wisely.
Context matters IMO. Combining a swastika and star of david is a slightly different context. Personally, I don't give a damn about either one.
This is all pie-in-sky in talk.
The reality is that Musk is running a business. He is willing to sacrifice some lib users and take criticism from the MSM to allow conservative voices more free reign. He is not willing to lose a huge chunk of users to allow a famous lunatic to post anti-Semitic ravings (nor risk lawsuits).
This is how free speech works in a free marketplace. If you don’t like crybabies and think Nazi ravings should be allowed, there’s always 8kun. Champion 8kun. Say everyone should go there and support it. Why aren’t you saying that?
If someone does not like JimRob’s rule against the F-word and/or the one against blasphemy, he can always go to Reddit or any number of other sites. You are free to choose the sort of speech you wish to immerse yourself in.
We have the right to free speech under the law (with very few limitations, those being libel, incitement to violence, and incitement to imminent harm). No one can be arrested for saying ugly things, unpopular things or using racial slurs. And I’m all for that.
For all our carrying on over the First Amendment and Free Speech and the Founding Fathers, we forget that profanity laws were on the books until very recently:
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1143/profanity
We also forget that obscenity was considered beyond the pale and banned by decent society, and then that movie houses and broadcast stations voluntarily enforced obscenity codes until fairly recently. Yes, some aspects of the Hays Code were silly, but nowadays it’s hard to find a movie or TV show that doesn’t feature swearing and sex. Personally, I liked the old days better and think it was much better for families and children then. But now it seems sex and swearing sell. So I’m stuck with old movies and TV shows. That’s the free market, I guess.
We have always socially or legally limited our free speech. We used to draw the line at obscenity, profanity and blasphemy (in addition to libel and incitement to violence). Then we added racial slurs. Now we allow obscenity, profanity and blasphemy, but still draw the line at racial slurs. We have this little corner of the internet here on FR where obscenity, profanity and blasphemy are still frowned upon, and I am grateful for it. Again, this is how free speech is regulated in a free market.
The trouble is, if you allow anything-goes absolute free speech, you get a cesspool like 8kun. How many people hang out on 8kun and how many on Twitter? You can’t have a free market and absolute free speech on every platform. You are, however, free to choose the platform you prefer. You want absolute free speech? Go to 8kun. You don’t want to be immersed in blasphemy, obscenity and profanity? There’s FR. And so on.
We have always put limits on free speech in this country, even back in the days of the Founding Fathers, either through social pressure or through laws. See my #51:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4113330/posts?page=51#51
images of Christian symbols
= = =
Don’t you know that images of the cross are supposed to be swastikas, but the ends were secretly removed by those lying christians to hide that fact?
Give it a couple of days. Ban the cross.
Look... What is the difference between F**k, WTF, #$&@, and the text letters that truly spell the words?
Only binary. But the “alternatives” are used all the time here and no one complains. They are cool even though we all know what words they are replacing?
Makes absolutely no logical sense... May as well allow the real words... And this is my point.
It is the firewall of faith. It limits true perspective and scope of the bigger picture. They will look back someday and wish they had not helped further the agenda. We have about lost the 2nd, now we are about to lose the 1st. And freedom of religion will be right behind our loss of freedom of speech. Never give an inch or they will take a mile...
Thank you for your thoughtful, intelligent, astute, and logical comments... :)
It’s partly because JimRob wants this to be a family friendly site. A kid who has never heard or seen the word has only one letter to go by, the way I did it. I doubt there are many kids today who don’t know more badwords than I do. When I was a kid, we really did not know those words.
When it comes to the F-word, JimRob said the form you used is unacceptable here, but things have grown more lax here and you see lots more of that kind of thing here now. I remember the olden golden days here when you almost never saw it. Twitter effect? Reddit effect? Coarsening of society affecting Freepers, too, I guess.
:)
“When I was a kid, we really did not know those words.”
Me too... But do you really think that now days kids do not? At some point reality has to come into the picture.
If Mr Robinson banned everyone who “hinted” at a dirty word or idea concerning “context”, there would be about ten people left to pay his bills here.
Like I say, at some point reality has to come into play.We live in new times. And we live in these new times because too many capitulated with word control.
Please let me explain a human trait. When you tell someone they are not allowed to do something they do not like being told no. So they rebel and do that very same thing even more than they normally would. In fact... They then go out of their way just to do it.
Now if you ignore it and not give it any attention they realize that their efforts did absolutely no good. Just like ignoring a troll on the internet. If they cannot get a rise out of you then they give up. (Well those with a half ass sound mind do).
There is a funny phenomenon about free speech. When you allow it, i self regulates it’s self. No one is “getting away with” anything wrong, and because there will be no punishment coming for “testing the envelope” they don’t use it.
We have experimented with this concept in our own free speech conservative forum. And what we found is that those who would normally be profane to “get away with something” just do not exercise it. Very very rarely, because it is allowed if they like.
Being allowed takes all the fun out of making it a practice and effort of rebellion with purpose. Quite amazing actually how it self polices it’s self. Which brings up a point...
If Musk had just let it go with Kanye, the community it’s self would have laughed Kanye off the board. which would have been much more devastating to him than being banned. Sometimes i is better to just “Let him have at it” and see what he gets in return for his stupidity. :)
But I know one thing, unless something is codified as illegal binary, we DO NOT want to capitulate to their “Hate speech” societal controls. Give an inch and they will take a mile. Like I said... First freedom of speech, next freedom of religion.
The writing is on the wall, and anyone who does not see it is a fool... The word “God” will be hate speech punishable by law. In fact, it already is in schools... Again we cannot be selective, i will be all, or none at all.
Your choice...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.