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To: Boogieman

I’m not going to defend Putin, but looking at Eastern Europe since the Cold War ended lets see who’s practiced appeasement, expansion and aggression.

When the Cold War ended NATO and the US informally told Russia there would be no expansion of NATO eastward, it wasn’t in writing so the word was a few years later screw you Russia. Was that promise kept? Fourteen new countries all former Soviet Pact countries were allowed to join. The Russians were upset and angry but did not start a war and appeased NATO, allowing it’s expansion literally right to it’s border in some cases.

When the Russians started pushing back in the Crimea NATO acted like they were pure as the driven snow and were flabbergasted at Russian behavior. Again I am not justifying the behavior just looking at the overall picture since 1991.

There are no innocents in this coming cataclysm, BOTH sides have behaved stupidly and disingenuously: practicing aggression, expansion and appeasement.


27 posted on 10/04/2022 8:28:36 AM PDT by sarge83
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To: sarge83
When the Cold War ended NATO and the US informally told Russia there would be no expansion of NATO eastward,

Untrue. No expansion of NATO eastward only covered East Germany. Gorbachev, the head of the Soviet Union confirmed this in later interviews. Also, NATO expansion is voluntary, as opposed to joining Russia, which always seems to be at the point of a gun. As to threatening Russia, does anyone seriously believe NATO was going to invade a nuclear Russia?

The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls Oct 16 2014

https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html

28 posted on 10/04/2022 8:40:43 AM PDT by tlozo (Better to Die on Your Feet than Live on Your Knees)
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To: sarge83

” The Russians were upset and angry but did not start a war and appeased NATO...”

I’m sorry, but that’s not “appeasement”. NATO did not invade any countries in Eastern Europe. Those countries voluntarily asked to join a defensive alliance.

“BOTH sides have behaved stupidly and disingenuously: practicing aggression, expansion and appeasement.”

No, only one side has been aggressive, and that is Russia. Nobody else has been invading other countries in Europe except for them, and they have done it habitually since Putin has come to power.


32 posted on 10/04/2022 10:52:19 AM PDT by Boogieman
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