“Is it too much to expect Europe to take care of their own defense, including paying for it?”
This was OUR PLAN...the corrupt, evil “permanent deep state” new world order government who stole the last election and has been destroying our country ever since.
The plans for using Ukraine as the tool for us to take Putin/Russia down was instigated during the Obama administration. We deliberately overthrew their elected government (like we routinely do with the NGOs we finance and promoting government opposition figures.)
“We put $5 billion into Ukraine and we aren’t leaving. F_ck the EU!” That is a verbatim conversation Victoria Nuland had that we have on tape.
Our plan was to train Ukraine’s nationalistic forces to NATO standards (which we did for 7 full years) erect strong fortifications and then as the “Rand Plan” we paid for clearly states use Ukraine to destabilize and weaken Russia and bring about “regime change.” We were instrumental in the INCREASED Ukrainian firing on the Donbass which began Feb. 14 (a full 10 days before Russia crossed into Ukraine and invaded.)
By the way, we have a similar proxy war plan for China. Our two biggest adversaries/competitors were becoming too strong and we needed these plans to hold on to our worldwide hegemony that had begun slipping away. (And now is ending.)
NATO are wimps...except for Poland they were not going to attack anybody.
We own this and we will pay an extraordinary high price for our stupidity, our hubris, and our desperation.
Of course Europe should be taking care of its own defense.
NATO was formed when most of Europe was near-bankrupt and in complete ruins.
“Europe is better known as our “vassals.””
Oh, what UTTER revisionist balderdash.
Post-war Europe didn’t have the resources to resist the Soviets if they decided to go eastwards. America NEEDED Europe to be capable of that resistance.
Once ICBMs came into play, and Russia thought about stationing nukes in places like Cuba, America needed to do the same.
So, there was a symbiotic relationship. USA relied on the inability of Russia to take on two continents at once, and Europe needed America because it was broke.
“The plans for using Ukraine as the tool for us to take Putin/Russia down was instigated during the Obama administration.”
Oh, do give over. Anyone in America still wibbling on about the Russian boogeyman in 2012-13 was reacting to the MULTIPLE invasions Russia had already embarked on, not desperate to smash an enemy that had been dead and buried for twenty years.
“We put $5 billion into Ukraine and we aren’t leaving. F_ck the EU!”
Ah, you fell for it. The Soviet spin, repackaging of 20 years’ worth of $5.1bn investment as a short term bung to instigate regime change.
“Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.”
Totally true. The UK does the same thing too, it’s called “soft power”. Russia didn’t do very much of it, until Putin’s toadies pointed out to him that the same methods that promote westernisation, can be used to sell Russkiyi Mir.
“Our plan was to train Ukraine’s nationalistic forces to NATO standards (which we did for 7 full years) erect strong fortifications and then as the “Rand Plan” we paid for clearly states use Ukraine to destabilize and weaken Russia and bring about “regime change.” “
And, ticking yet another “it’s Russian bullshit, easily spotted” box off the bingo card... Destabilize and weaken the country that for YEARS pro-Russian weirdos were saying was overwhelmingly brilliant at everything and warning us all “don’t poke the bear”??? Hey, do you need a spare London Bridge, because I’ve got three to sell.
I do wish the Russians would make their minds up. One minute Ukraine’s backward, corrupt, incompetent, and will fold in five minutes when the first wave of Russkie tanks turn up... the next they’re getting fierce resistance to political interdiction in 2014 and to military invasion in 2022 - Russia can’t possibly have screwed up its math, so its gotta be the Americans’ fault!!!
“We own this and we will pay an extraordinary high price for our stupidity, our hubris, and our desperation.”
Well, SOME people will own it - when the dust settles and they find themselves in the same pit of ignominy as those after World War 2 who’d spent the early years insisting that we should cut a peace deal with Hitler (and the Jews had it coming) before pulling the same stupid argument in order to justify decades of a total menace called the Soviet Union.
Yup, when that happens you’ll be ruing your stupidity, hubris and desperation. Because those who did it in World War 2 at least had the excuse they didn’t know better; nobody alive today can argue they don’t know exactly what Russia and Germany did in World War 2 AND HOW THE APPEASERS ENABLED IT ALL.