The muzzles of some of the low-cost gun barrels look familiar...
Posted on 07/21/2022 6:07:25 AM PDT by max americana
Says who? A 12 gauge 8-shot magazine shotgun loaded with 00 Buck carries 9 soft lead 9mm balls in each round. 8 rounds equals 72 9mm slugs per load.
A 9mm submachinegun carries at most 30 rounds per magazine and it can be emptied quickly, but unless you hold it very firmly and keep the bursts short, most rounds after the first one go above the target. Once the magazines are empty, it takes a while in someplace safe to reload those magazine. A shotgun can be reloaded in between shots, with a round in the chamber.
Best of all, shotguns can use a variety of ammunition from no. 9 birdshot (very useful indoors, since it won't penetrate walls and kill your neighbor) to No. 1 buck and slugs - and the rare FRAG-12 grenades.
So, what's this about "urban legends"? Try to convince a guy who's used them in combat.
I later switched from 0313 to 8541.
Hey, the weapon was MUCH lighter.
LOL.
L
Now days...our pols would require our military stop using the weapon, apologize to the enemy, and arrest the US troops that were using said weapons.
“Lighter” is relative term: some of those puppies were pretty weighty too: the sniper we had carried a Model 70 with a medium weight barrel and a long Unertl scope. He let me hold it and I still preferred my M14!
That donut pattern is a thing. A famous example happened to an LA cop. Shot at a bad guy just a hair too far out, the buck pellets made a circle on the wall behind him and the guy immediately surrendered. Swear it’s true.
Another good one is the genesis of the Milt Sparks summer special holster. An undercover cop drew his gun on a drug dealer. The gun came out, holster and all. As he stood there pointing the holster-clad pistol at the bad guy, the bad guy started laughing so hard he almost couldn’t breathe.
The guy decided shiny smooth side of the leather inside the holster might be a good thing.
And Alexander Selkirk, the inspiration for Robinson Crusoe was marooned on his island with muskets and “fouling pieces”.
That was 1704.
“yeah, the effectiveness of shotguns for personal defense is largely urban legend,”
You have no idea of whence you speak. It is the single most devastating personal defense gun you can wield. In mass shootings it is the most lethal by percentange as well. SOF magazine did a spreadsheet on it. Rather shocking.
Another wildly lethal personal defense gun in the simple 30-30.
Most surprising is that according to Jim Cirillo, the most lethal gun on the NYPD stakeout squad was the M1 Carbine that is the subject of so much disdain. They ran it with 110 softpoints.
“So, what’s this about “urban legends”? Try to convince a guy who’s used them in combat.”
I’m 100% with you on that.
The muzzles of some of the low-cost gun barrels look familiar...
I am quite the fan of the BAR. The weight makes for a nice trade off by reducing recoil. For a big guy that makes the BAR pretty easy to handle.
It didn't take long to get used to the weight.
On a related note, I carried a full auto M14 in Vietnam and an army buddy of mine told me that the "M-14 was too long and too heavy for Vietnam - the M16 was lighter, you could carry more rounds and was better in Vietnam than the M14"
I told him that "I wish you'd told me that in Vietnam" and he said "why?".
I said that "I would have sent a big, strong Marine to you to hold your rifle up for you".
We haven't spoken much for a while...
Where I live in a rural area and no semblance of animal control in my county I get a lot of stray dogs who are set out literally in the middle of no where. 99.9% of the time I will yell git and that sends them away from the house and my two dogs. But every now and then I’ll run across one that won’t leave even after a round into the ground and will fight my dogs and cause problems.
At that point after exhausting my options I put them down and out of the calibers I’ve used: .22lr, .45 ACP, .357 magnum, and .12 gauge. I can attest the .12 gauge with 00 buck is a quick and effective way to end the interaction with the .357 coming in second. Thankfully this doesn’t happen very often but the .12 gauge is the go to weapon when it does.
I sat on a murder trial nearly 20 years ago and a shotgun was used in the murder. The victim took a .12 gauge 00 buck in the chest at roughly 30-40 feet and died instantly according to the coroner. The surviving witness who took off running took a 00 blast in the shoulder and arm. He survived by running away but his arm and shoulder looked like a piece of hamburger meat in the crime scene photos. The defendant got 20 years for the murder and 10 years for first degree assault. He has to serve 24 years before he gets a parole hearing. Had we given him life for the murder he got a hearing in 17 years which is warped, but it is the law in my state.
I'm at the edge of the county limits and we do have animal countrol, thank goodness. Cats are difficult...they get tossed out too...winter is a b i itch...but we try to catch'em and if we do they live, thanks to the county and the saints at the animal shelter.
When SCOTUS, in “Miller” refused to take judicial notice of short-barrel shotguns having any military use, they were being exceptionally dishonest.
Dear Germans and Japs,
Don’t start no sh!t, won’t be no sh!t!
No American shotguns or atomic bombs to you! Simple.
Not being a snot ... it's spelled "fowling", as in hunting fowl (birds). A friend years ago had a muzzleloading 12bore shotgun. It was a hoot to fire, and kept a very even pattern. Shooting modern "Trap" or "Skeet" with it would be a chore, though.
You mean Ja Wolle? LOL!!!
But poison gas was fine and dandy 🤪
not 72 9 mm slugs-—72 round balls that are probably only goign to inpact 8 targets
Obviously a 12 loaded with buckshot it going to have a dramatic effect but personally I prefer a more maneuverable double stack pistol that operates far faster than a pump shotgun.
as far as birdshot—nasty wounds but little penetration and I’m not going for deterrent value—purely terminating threat value.
In the event I was suspecting real trouble there are AR’s for that but the thought of touching one off indoors without hearing protection is somewhat off-putting
Each person should do what is best for them (I’ve decades of heavy practice and point shoot extremely well so it’s different for me)—this was mostly targeted at the people who think they are goign to hit everything on the other side of the room when in reality you’ve probably got a 3-6” diameter impact circle in a typical room at very best.
Hold the trigger while working the action, will slam fire five rounds as quick as you can work it.
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