Posted on 04/28/2022 8:53:20 PM PDT by sushiman
Yeah keep in mind that the United Kingdom and France both said after Joe Biden is disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, that they could never work with Biden. Now all of a sudden everybody’s working together in singing Kumbaya
Yup. And the problem with all that and is that what happens if they push for a proxy war in the Ukraine and Russia doesn’t want to play proxy war anymore they’ve been down that road before.
Yup. America justified its earlier proxy wars by saying it was fighting communism.
A big part of the problem is that none of these warmongering Neo-conservatives and Democratic Party members can recognize their own hypocrisy. But China and Russia do recognize our hypocrisy and they’re using our very own words to justify doing the same thing we did
One good thing about this incompetent admin is they do occasionally forget to lie. The Ukrainian’s are mere pawns in this oligarch game. Even saw a 22 year old American was killed over there. Probably a fine young man who believed the lie that this was about Ukrainian freedom.
The world isn’t binary.
There sure are a lot of liberals around here these days.
There have been several killed and captured.
The MSM has really pumped this up. You must realize, the media in the US is basically just a few original content providers, a few conglomerates that own all the production, and what is referred to as “big tech” which is a handful of essentially monopolies or oligopolies.
America and the West et al has smart phones, the Internet, we have 1,726 TV channels in the US... and we are WORSE informed than in 1970.
It is funny when we today refer to Russia as an “oligarchy” constantly: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 (that is literally what we are)
We have become exactly that in earnest in the 1990s. You have a mere handful of elites in the US that basically have influence over the political system and media. They can create the perceptions and influence the policy maker and if there is a discrepancy between what they want and the masses want, they almost always get their way, i.e. the policies end up mirroring their interests. What does that tell you?
Ukraine is a gem. It’s a country with a 99.7% literacy rate. Over 50% of their electrical power is nuclear. They have a functioning bureaucracy and solid infrastructure. 30% of their GDP is industrial and they are a major player in the worlds food supply. It’s a nation where the per capita GPA is 60% greater than in Mexico and that is in their current state (vast growth potential).
***For the Western economic interests, NATO and EU membership is a prerequisite since this creates the required securities which they desire.***
If Ukraine is NATO and EU, there are rules and even Ukraine can’t just make ad hock decisions to nationalize, seize, freeze money, equipment, property, people, or take IP etc... This is also ironic, since nations within the EU and NATO lose their national “sovereignty” to a large degree, i.e. they are told they must accept these LGBTQIA agenda’s, they must pay 2.0% GDP on defense, they must accept refugees from the Middle East (Syria), they must not make more than this much debt, print this much currency... For the big US and European economic interests, EU and NATO membership creates a set of rules Ukraine must play by and it provides security from outside influence, i.e. Russia.
America stopped being a beacon for democracy post WWII.
Post WWII we became a world super power and post Cold War a hegemon.
Our military interventions today are expeditionary and in furtherance of our economic interests. There is no more just war or cause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
It’s just about greed and power at this point and it has been that way for a long time.
Anyone that thinks this is about democracy and human rights, needs to ask this administration what they are doing about our biggest trading partner, China? A single party atheist communist regime which makes dissidents disappear, oppresses religion, has no free speech, uses slave/forced labor, has forced abortions, organ harvesting without consent, invades its neighbors for real unprovoked (Tibet)... What is this administration doing about Saudi Arabia, a kingdom where they oppress women, other religions, give the order to hack apart a US resident working for the US media: Kashoggi (because he dared say things the prince didn’t like)?
Ever notice how little the human rights violations in China and Saudi Arabia are in the news opr mentioned by US policy makers? Ever notice how quickly the Kashoggi story disappeared? Why? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45812399
Democracy, human rights, freedom... these are vapid punchlines used by our MSM and policy makers to get you motivated to stand behind their agenda - whatever that may be. Ukraine isn’t a democracy! Doesn’t stop us from using that emotional laden term... It’s all about invoking feelings.
You’re supposed to be all excited. Jumping up and down screaming at the Russians, feeling sorry for the Ukraine, and be happy as another $33,000,000,000 of our tax dollars are going for a war which benefits some corporations (arms sales and so that a “safe space” can be created for the big economic interests).
“The world isn’t binary.”
Are you?
Disingenuous question and evasive response.
Human sex is binary, and I am male. (penis, balls, XY chromosome, etc...)
“Disingenuous question and evasive response.”
I think that applies to your response. Mine was obviously a joke.
Going back to your your six where you wrote:
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“Weaken Russia. So extend the war and let more and more civilians die.
Awesome plan, great morals.
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My question was and is, based on this statement your concern is the war is not extended so that less civilians die. Isn’t the best way to accomplish your goal and maintain morals, as you put it, to ally with Russia in war to end the war as soon as possible?
No, I think negotiation is the best, and fastest, way to end the war.
Siding with Russia would require millions to die which eliminates the moral component.
As most have stated, but not loudest, the US should have no part of this. Most FReepers avoid these threads now. It’s just for Russia or for Ukraine, and thus my point about binary.
The reasonable middle people don’t come to these threads anymore. You will be called a Putin Puffer or a Nazi...
“Siding with Russia would require millions to die which eliminates the moral component.”
How would this cause millions of deaths.
Ukraine would immediately surrender.
According to you. Supposedly they’re going to fight until they’re all dead.
Neither of us know what they would do.
Multiple times, a people have fought unwinnable wars without surrender.
“According to you. Supposedly they’re going to fight until they’re all dead.
Neither of us know what they would do.”
According to me?
What are you talking about?
My apologies, I didn’t mean to write “you”.
I meant to write many. No clue why I wrote that.
Too many windows and threads open at the same time.
We just got hosed for another 33 billion for aid to Ukraine. If anyone’s getting weakened it’s the American citizen.
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