Posted on 04/27/2022 7:38:21 AM PDT by Kevmo
Well, knock yourself out.
I could point to another poll taken by the same agency in March indicating Americans rejected an American military presence in Ukraine 62 to 39 percent but that would undercut my comment about polls.
Anyway IMO your poll is not much more relevant to the truth than is my unsupported assertion. I don’t believe most Americans want a shooting war with Russia.
But the US IS egging on NATO countries to escalate.
***Because one of our MAP would-be members has been invaded, duhh. We signed up to assure Uke sovereignty and borders in 1994, in exchange for getting rid of those nukes. It was the right thing to do at that time, and it’s the right agreement to honor now.
Like they’re trying to start WWIII,
***More like: They’re helping a country which has been invaded by a local bullying tyrant very similar to what happened in Sudetenland 1938. And more like, AVOIDING world war 3 just like we coulda avoided WW2 by standing up to that local bully at the time. And on top of it we don’t want to send the ukes down their own existential war pathway of developing their own suitcase nukes and blowing up cities in Russia.
with other countries paying the price.
***I agreed with Trump when he said NATO countries needed to start paying their own way.
This admin is criminal.
***Yes it is. And so is Putin’s admin, and so is Zelly’s. It self-negates across the board when discussing this situation. One criminal leader invaded the other criminal leader’s country and never woulda done so if that little guy country hadn’t given up their nukes.
They had plenty of time to move back to Russia if it was so important to them. Instead, it’s being used as a Sudetenland-type of justification for INVASION. That’s just pure bullshiite.
“And the analogy would be that there’s 2 independent provinces being abused & neglected in Ukraine. The analogy falls real short.”
It was the ethnic Russians who were probably on the receiving end of Ukrainian ‘affirmative action’ after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The Sunnis of Iraq did not take kindly to losing plum jobs to Shias after the US removed Saddam.
The reason Putin waited 14 years before he started agitating on these ethnic pieces of bullshiite is that in 2012, oil & gas reserves were discovered there. It is just an excuse. Otherwise there’d be a long & wide record of such issues going back to before 2012, before 1994 and the Budapest Accession, right back to 1991 when Russia had hegemony over the region. It is simply an excuse, and a weak one at that, very similar to Hitler’s Sudetenland excuses.
The former republics of the CCCP were a bit of declaration minded entities too:
Well, knock yourself out.
***I see below that even you knock your own self out by recognizing you undercut your own position by using... polls.
I could point to another poll taken by the same agency in March indicating Americans rejected an American military presence in Ukraine 62 to 39 percent
***That would have been a stronger argument. Instead you chose to assert your own opinion from a position of silence, a classic fallacy of arguing from silence.
but that would undercut my comment about polls.
***Polls are data. In many cases, infected data. But polls like this aren’t push-polls, they’re more aimed at trying to figure out what Americans think at the time. It would appear American attitudes have changed, if you were to accept polling data from both sources.
Anyway IMO your poll is not much more relevant
***My poll is far more relevant than silence. And if you wanna stack up the 2 polls then you’re gonna have to backtrack on polling as data. Hence, my poll is more relevant.
to the truth than is my unsupported assertion.
***It is good that you see it as an unsupported assertion.
I don’t believe most Americans want a shooting war with Russia.
***There’s already a shooting war with Russia. I think what you are getting at is that most Americans prefer it to be a proxy war, where Ukes are shooting Russians, rather than sending in our boys to die. You don’t have data to support it other than your own opinion... but I think I would agree with it that most Americans don’t want our own soldiers sent there so there’s that.
It was the ethnic Russians who were probably on the receiving end of Ukrainian ‘affirmative action’ after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Sunnis of Iraq did not take kindly to losing plum jobs to Shias after the US removed Saddam.
***In both cases, if it was that important, they could have moved back to their respective original regions instead of trying to colonize. We have our own illegal colonization problem right here in the US. And there’s plenty of discussion of it rather than it being in the noise.
“And why did they wait until after oil was discovered, hmmmm?”
A graph of Ukrainian oil production since the early 1990s:
https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/crude-oil-production?msclkid=227fd7e8c64611eca679a8cf82286c07
In recent years oil production has been about half of historical levels.
Putin caged himself can’t back track no place to run trusts nobody he’s a goner no matter what he does his own people hate him for the losses he’s caused.
Wonder how many dreams of Hitler’s bunker he has?.
If they declared independence then they are independent countries. Invading them is an act of war. Russia can’t get away with what they did to Prague nor Poland when they were running the Warsaw [forced enslavement] Pact.
Oil reserves are no indication of oil production. Especially when those regions are subject to political agitation, which is why US oil companies vacated their exploration contracts in that region.
“Most Americans want a shooting war with Russia? I don’t think so.”
More like most Americans don’t accept your premise.
It looks like this war is about food, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snlMfTEx5_g
Starts around 1:25.
If that bridge is totaled, that is apparently the last route out to export grain from Ukraine by sea. That ought to piss off all kinds of people.
The Ukes have been pretty proficient with gaining support so far (aided by typically counter-productive Russki trolls and tools in addition to Russian troops, and, Lavrov can't keep his lies straight). But here they have something else -- an opportunity to recruit from countries heavily dependent on Ukrainian food exports. That ought to be good for at least 2 million hungry fighters from Egypt alone.
I think Putin can survive even if this thing is a complete failure & he ends up with nothing in the Donbass and giving up Crimea. I’m always surprised how long these strongman types last.
Actually, the phrase was coined by George “Dubya” Bush as a nickname for Putin.
“they could have moved back to their respective original regions instead of trying to colonize.”
Arabs and Native Americans sometimes make similar arguments.
The areas now fought over belonged to the Turks who got much of them off the Byzantines. It was the Russian army that took them off the Turks in the 1790s I believe.
Poland I believe held most of Ukraine in the 18th Century.
Do you ever get tired of spreading this falsehood?
The Budapest Memorandum obliged no such thing. It never did.
Your willful pretending that it says otherwise has become loathsome.
What premise would that be?
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