Posted on 02/07/2022 10:55:27 AM PST by BenLurkin
An ignorant statement as fellow pilots say she was qualified.
From the article I referenced previously:
"The treatment she received after her death has always stayed with me as one of the greatest injustices witnessed during my naval career. Our XO replicated the mishap 100 times in the simulator and crashed 97 of them (emphasis added). "
and:
"At the time of her death, she was a pack-player behind the boat, meaning that she was solidly in the middle of the squadron’s landing grades (emphasis added). Yet, as one of the first woman to fly Tomcats in the fleet, and the first to die doing so, she was held as an example of the supposed error of women in combat.
So a pilot that trained with her would dispute your claims.
The first woman pilot is credited as Bessica Raiche in 1910. I'm not aware she ever crashed.
If only we could apply that standard to oir pols!
(The country wouldn’t now be imploding if that were so.)
Was the accident rate among Navy pilots better in the years before 1996 or after 1996?
I meant to add that the full video shows that 0.4 seconds was the difference between life and death.
“That can’t be right. Both those pilots were guys. Everyone knows only women crash airplanes.”
One of the guys could have been a woman identifying as a guy. Very confusing world.
Rw: 65 - You’re ‘gonna probably hear crickets on that one.
Why? Because there’s some incredible ignorance on this thread - and some FReepers are not going to let facts get in the way.
“Was the accident rate among Navy pilots better in the years before 1996 or after 1996?”
Some anecdotes from the article I referred to up thread:
When I got to [VF]213, the mishaps continued. In fact, during my two years in Air Wing Eleven, the entire Wing lost nine jets and had six fatalities. Four of the lost planes were Tomcats and three of the deaths were in them.
It was a jumpy time.
As one of my friends, HOB Higgins, said, we felt like cats in a room full of rocking chairs. Shortly after I joined 213 we lost Kara Hultgreen while she was attempting to land on the Lincoln. I had known Kara briefly in the Training Command.
What they are referring to is called inlet distortion which is a variation in stagnation pressure over the inlet area of the engine. Variations are induced by attitude changes - mainly pitch and yaw - as well as throttling factors that change the near field flow characteristics. Dependent on the robustness of the compressor design and the engine throttling schedule, outlier pressure variations can lead to surge which is mistakenly referred to as compressor stall, which is more often a result rather then a cause of surge.
I don’t know the details of the Hultgren case but it appears that it would be a yaw rate induced surge event leading to engine power loss which she probably tried to counteract with an excessive pitch rate leading to a failed engine side wing stall that then coupled into roll due to asymmetric lift and was unrecoverable due to competing asymmetric thrust moments with the aforementioned yaw rate induced out of balance roll moment.
I trust nothing said under duress. What would you expect them to say? What would happen if they said otherwise?
"The treatment she received after her death has always stayed with me as one of the greatest injustices witnessed during my naval career. Our XO replicated the mishap 100 times in the simulator and crashed 97 of them (emphasis added). "
Which just shows the article is lying or very ignorant. I researched this event shortly after it happened and I learned a lot about what actually happened back then. I believe the American Spectator covered it, and I subscribed to it at the time.
What they did to those pilots in the simulator is wait till the very last moment then they deliberately shut off one of their engines. This is not replicating what happened to her. She *CAUSED* her engine flame out.
So a pilot that trained with her would dispute your claims.
He would in public while he is still in the service, but he very well may not in private or if he was out of the service.
Now i've read several of your comments without engaging you on this topic, because your vehemence convinced me that you may have more than a passing interest in this particular incident. Is this particular incident personal for you somehow?
Here is typical Doodle. Pretend we were talking about something else, then attempt to apply it to the conversation.
I think most people in this thread know what is meant when someone says "first female fighter pilot" especially when the name "Karen Hultgreen" is added.
So yeah, take it back to biplanes in 1910. That's arguing like an adult.
Actually, for reasons I forget, female bodies are better suited to G-forces pulled in combat flight.
Thanks. That confirms my guess.
Been retired for so long that the correct terms, pitch and yaw escaped me for the moment I was typing.
You do the work and let us know what you find.
If you don't report back with some information that proves your point, we can all conclude that you couldn't find any which supports your point.
The comments made by one pilot were made in 2019. I doubt he was under duress. He was already retired from the military.
Now i've read several of your comments without engaging you on this topic, because your vehemence convinced me that you may have more than a passing interest in this particular incident. Is this particular incident personal for you somehow?
Nope, nothing personal, other than ignorant, ill-informed comments about US military personnel just being unfortunate. Just outing people that engage in that behavior.
What they did to those pilots in the simulator is wait till the very last moment then they deliberately shut off one of their engines
Source, please.
A couple of femanazi’s in here getting offended at the truth...
I don’t know the details of the Hultgren case but it appears that it would be a yaw rate induced surge event leading to engine power loss which she probably tried to counteract with an excessive pitch rate leading to a failed engine side wing stall that then coupled into roll due to asymmetric lift and was unrecoverable due to competing asymmetric thrust moments with the aforementioned yaw rate induced out of balance roll moment.
This is exactly what happened according to several articles I read at the time.
Here you go Fury. Let's dispel some ignorance. You are against ignorance, right?
The scuttlebutt I heard was she screwed up. That’s based on Navy pilots I knew who were familiar with her and the accident.
People DO screw up. I knew men who died because of screw-ups as well. In fact, most of the guys I knew who died flying did so because THEY SCREWED UP.
Do women screw up more? Yes and no. During that time frame, women ‘could not fail’. Knew a flight instructor who screwed his career protesting over being overruled when he flunked women student pilots. What really screwed him was when one of those women pilots complained her poor performance that day was due to that time of the month, and he shouted that was no excuse. Apparently the Wing Commander DID think it was an excuse. But I was a WSO/EWO in 2 seat fighters and I can promise you I wouldn’t have wanted to die because my pilot was menstruating!
Women held to equal standards in training may be different and some of the women might be outstanding pilots. The handful I met were average, but then, most men are average as well....
"In 1994 while approaching the USS Abraham Lincoln during the daytime, her F-14 experienced a compressor stall with the left engine, a worst-case scenario. She mismanaged the emergency and the airplane flipped inverted. The radar intercept officer, LT Matt Klemish, in her backseat, initiated ejection in time to save his own life, but Kara was killed.
"In this episode Ward analyzes the aeromechanics of the F-14 during single engine emergencies and reviews the "bold face" procedures - steps that must be committed to memory - that Lt. Hultgreen should have followed during the emergency situation she faced.
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