Posted on 10/31/2021 7:50:39 AM PDT by DFG
Most of us tend to associate the start of America’s involvement in World War II with the tragedy that struck Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. Technically, we aren’t wrong. The United States did in fact make the decision to officially enter the war following the events of that terrible day. However, the Attack on Pearl Harbor was not the first deadly attack against U.S. forces during the overall duration of the war, nor was it the first time a U.S. warship was ravaged by the Axis.
The story I am about to tell you may sound familiar to any Woody Guthrie fans out there. In 1942, Guthrie released a song entitled, “The Sinking of the Reuben James”, whose recognizable chorus reads,
Tell me what were their names, tell me what were their names Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James? What were their names, tell me, what were their names? Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James?
Guthrie’s song recounts the fate which befell the Clemson-class destroyer USS Reuben James (DD-245) on 31 October 1941, 78 years ago to this day, making her the first U.S. Navy ship to be sunk during World War II.
(Excerpt) Read more at navalhistory.org ...
I remember on Band of Brothers, one of the members of Easy Company talking about a guy who killed himself, because he was declared unfit to join the military during WWII. As he said, “It was a different time.”
I've often thought that the 'ideal' outcome for WWII would have included the fascists and communists killing each other to the very last man. As they say, hindsight is 20-20...
The Reuben James was off the coast of Ireland (not Iceland) when it was sunk; it was in England's backyard on the other side of the ocean. (I don't know the details of what Germany did or didn't do in the aftermath of the sinking, but I'm not convinced that an apology on their part was warranted, particularly in light of all of the legal and ethical ramifications that such an apology would have inferred.)
Call me a jingoist or interventionist, but I am adamantly opposed to US naval vessels being torpedoed and US servicemen being killed and consider it an act of war when those are done.
That may be so, but any legal or moral consideration of an action always takes intent into consideration. (Jury selection is specifically designed in an attempt to screen out those who would decide based upon sentiment or emotion.)
The Reuben James was taking an active role in a war zone where its sinking was a very real possibility, and it was doing so in the service of a government that was maintaining an official position of neutrality. (Its very presence in that convoy was evidence that the US government was lying to the world about American involvement in the Allies' efforts.) Most Americans at the time recognized immediately that nobody on that destroyer had any business claiming the role of a victim, and they rightly resisted the attempt by the interventionists to use the sinking to push America into the war.
It was basically a different planet.
My position regarding the presence of an American warship guarding a convoy in international waters remains unchanged.
The original song was performed and recorded by the Almanac Singers, of which Woody Guthrie was a member.
Earlier that year, the Almanac Singers recorded an album titled “Songs for John Doe” denouncing FDR, the Selective Service Act, restrictions on labor “for national defense”, funding for the military, and intervention in Europe especially aid to the UK (both Lend Lease and “Bundles for Britain”).
On the morning of June 23, 1941, the Almanac Singers switched sides. They recalled any unsold copies of “Songs for John Doe” (try to find a copy, a CD, an mp3 - bet you can’t!) and began to record and perform pro-FDR, pro intervention, pro-military, pro-regulation of labor songs, of which “The Sinking of the Reuben James” is the most famous.
FR points for the first post which understands the significance of the date and the reason for the switch.
The naval war with Japan and our intervention to save the Soviet Union were quite different.
Teaching them as “World War II” obscures more than it reveals.
That had me scratching my head too but then I re-read the post and it said Guthrie release the song in 1942. Now I want to know what month in 1942.
FDR ran in 1940 on a platform of non-intervention, and his purpose in Europe was to rescue the USSR.
Germany launched “Operation Barbarossa” on June 22, 1941.
Bingo!
The Almanac Singers and Woody were MUCH more worried about the fate of the USSR than they were about sending American boys to die in somebody else's war.
Reuben James sinking coordinates : 51°59’5”N 27°5’2”W’
700 miles south of Iceland
650 miles west of Ireland
We had a nice thread a few years ago about the first American military person killed in World War II. There was argument then that the Panay didn’t count, and that the honor goes to Capt. Robert Losey.
The protection of a country’s commerce and of its citizens and vessels is considered a primary duty of a country’s navy. America is no exception. Insisting otherwise for the sake of non-intervention against the Nazis is both wrong and wrong-minded. Even with FDR as President, Hitler and the Nazis were evil and we were in the right in WW II.
700 miles south of Iceland
650 miles west of Ireland
Thanks for putting this up.
When I looked up the location the last time, I distinctly recalled the location of the sinking being described in terms of its proximity to Ireland.
When I looked at it again today, the article I pulled up gave the location in relation to Iceland; I thought my recollection of Ireland had been a mistake.
But a ship closer to Ireland than Iceland is clearly closer to Europe than it is to America, and I don't subscribe to the idea that we were simply minding our own business when the Germans put a torpedo into the ship.
The ship was attacked at night, and its very reasonable to believe (in fact, probable) that the officers on the U-Boat ran its silhouette against their "Book of Boat Silhouettes" and determined the ship was a Lend-Lease destroyer under a British flag because of its location on Britain's side of the ocean.
I think I remember that thread.
I posted something to the effect of, the Japanese thought it a kill.
Anyway, we kicked axis ass.
5.56mm
This is a completely different topic than the one being discussed; let's keep the two separate.
Although the political discourse in this day and age does not allow much for it, it is actually quite possible for two positions to be wrong. (I can correctly point out that the Germans were wrong for invading Eastern Europe and carrying out the murder of millions of people; but the Germans being wrong in this regard does not immediately mean that everything the Americans or the Allies did was right. An American ship taking on a military role while the country maintains an official position of neutrality is also wrong, even as it doesn't match the wrong of the opposing side in its moral gravity or degree.)
The officers and men of the Reuben James were acting in violation of the rules of neutrality; whether or not they acknowledged it at the time, or whether or not you have a problem with this today, the American public at the time knew immediately (by simply looking at a map) that the officers and men of that ship were not innocent in any acceptable sense of the word, either then or now.
In October 1941, The USS Kearny was docked at Reykjavík, in U.S.-occupied Iceland. A “wolfpack” of German U-boats attacked a nearby British convoy, and overwhelmed her Canadian escorts. Kearny and three other U.S. destroyers were summoned to assist.
Immediately on reaching the action, Kearny dropped depth charges on the U-boats, and continued to barrage throughout the night. (This action was specifically cited as a provocation in Hitler’s declaration of war on the U.S. two months later.) At the beginning of the midwatch 17 October, a torpedo fired by U-568 struck Kearny on the starboard side. The crew confined flooding to the forward fire room, enabling the ship to get out of the danger zone with power from the aft engine and fire room. Regaining power in the forward engine room, Kearny steamed to Iceland at 10 knots (20 km/h), arriving 19 October.
Kearny lost 11 men killed, and 22 others were injured. After temporary repairs Kearny got underway Christmas Day 1941, and moored six days later at Boston, Massachusetts, for permanent repairs.
Also recorded by Johnny Horton.,
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