Posted on 09/19/2021 2:07:52 PM PDT by DFG
Looks like a T-6A, certainly not a T-45C. Both are equipped with ejection seats.
Check out some other opinions on this but the "time to eject" assumption is not a leisurely decision making process.
When you are on fire and have seconds to react checking out the neighborhood for a safe place to auger in may not be your first priority.
I’ve got a few hours as “junk in the trunk” in a few T6A’s. Loved every minute of it as Sgt in a Navy training squadron.
The more I look at it the more that looks like a T-37. Long retired from active service. That could be a privately owned Tweet if that is indeed the right picture. No military markings. It would have stars and bars on the wings shown. Also the blue trim paint job screams civil aviation.
Surely the media wouldn't be lazy enough to use a stock photo of an earlier crash...right?
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104548/t-6a-texan-ii/
The T-6 Texan you are thinking of is an entirely different airplane, WWII vintage..
http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/at6.html
Depends on where he was sitting. The rear seater always goes first, automated sequencing. The student pilot usually flies the front seat, ergo last to go by about 0.5 seconds.
I've never seen markings like that on any Air Force aircraft.
I have checked out a number of other articles written on the account of the crash.
The fire you speak of was not recognized until after the crash.
“A small fire resulted from the crash, Arthur said. Three residents of the damaged homes sustained minor injuries and were treated on the scene, according to the Fort Worth Fire Department.” ABC News
A result of the crash, not the cause of it.
The NBC article did not mention any fire at all:
Local News stated about the injury to the pilot on the wires:
“Lake Worth police said Sunday afternoon that the pilot hanging from the power lines had been electrocuted.” They made no mention of a fire burn, just an electrocution that would most like cause burns.
Any time a pilot has to eject, before he pulls the wo egress levers, he is taught to aim the aircraft out of harms way and not to release it into people like this.
And that can be done under extreme circumstances. I was in Galena Alaska in 1986 when a loaded F-15 strike eagle took off it’s wingtips by not telling the computer about topping off the wing tanks and he wagged his wings to thank the CAC that had worked on it, took off the tips about 8 feet in, they flew back and hit the engines causing an explosion and fire and without wings, probably shocked by the explosion, and burning, he aimed the thing at the Yukon River missing the town and the cantonment area of the site where he and the aircraft went into 180 feet of water.
Both egress handles had been pulled but since the flight was going to be so short to King Salmon, he never turned it on. But even with the explosion, and the lack of wings, and most likely stunned, he still aimed the craft away from populous. It can and is supposed to be done. So if the instructor pilot in Texas had time to egress, he had time to aim it as the whole area is surrounded by water.
Like I said, the NTSB, the military, and possibly the FAA will have a time sorting out this one.
wy69
Any time a pilot has to eject, before he pulls the wo egress levers, he is taught to aim the aircraft out of harms way and not to release it into people like this.
Is "Search for a safe place to crash" before or after "stow all loose items then assume the correct position for ejection"...Where exactly is this in the training syllabus or the dash 1?
There’s no Corpus Christi International Airport in Lake Worth/Fort Worth.
Standard procedure is for rear seater to eject first, then front seater. That way the rear seater is not burned from the rocket motor of the front seater. In some aircraft the front seater has the ability to initiate the ejection of the rear seat.
“”Where exactly is this in the training syllabus or the dash 1?”
The manual doesn’t tell you everything. Do you think the military would need to tell a pilot the obvious. It is a pilot’s decision to determine the flying capacity of an aircraft, If their aircraft was still flyable, then they have two choices to make, one to try for a forced landing even on a runway or two, to stick it somewhere to do the least harm. But that has to do with the capacity of the pilot, the aircraft at the time, and where they were.
Do you honestly think an experienced pilot, an instructor, would not try to aim it away from population whether ejecting or trying a forced landing if he could? There have been crashes killing people on forced landings because pilots didn’t have a place to aim it so they tried to ride it in where the damage and death rate could be less. That and the fact that ejecting is not a all more safe than a forced landing in many cases.
But here is information you might use:
“If a decision to eject is made, the pilot should first attempt to turn the aircraft toward an area where injury or damage to persons or property on the ground or ware is least likely to occur.”
https://classicjetsims.com/CF-104/EmergencyProcedures.html
“It depends on the condition of the aircraft. If the pilot is in control of the plane but determines that a crash is inevitable, he should head to the closest unpopulated area, reduce speed, and then eject. If, however, the pilot has lost control of the plane’s basic functioning and can no longer alter its path (in military parlance, the aircraft is “not flying, but falling”), then he should prioritize escaping before impact.”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/12/how-and-when-to-use-your-ejection-seat.html
And the immediate reporting may not appear to be sound either. After examining witness testimony, news determined that the one pilot was not on fire when he came down, he was electrically burned on the wires.
https://abc7chicago.com/fort-worth-plane-crash-military-lake-texas/11031300/
And like I said in my entry, just like yours, the NTSB and the military, probably working toward the FAA also, will have a mess to figure out.
And an afterthought:
One more realism that comes from a movie when a military lawyer asked a service member on the stand how he knew of the way to the chow hall if it wasn’t in the manual? He retorted, “I just followed the other guys.”
wy69
It is obvious that you have never been in SAC.
If a decision to eject is made, the pilot should first attempt to turn the aircraft toward an area where injury or damage to persons or property on the ground or ware is least likely to occur.”
Seriously, you are quoting this from a flight simultor??
Do you honestly think an experienced pilot, an instructor, would not try to aim it away from population whether ejecting or trying a forced landing if he could?
Your circular logic defeats your own argumebt criticizing the IP.
Out of the frying pan into the fire!
How awful that this really happened.
“It is obvious that you have never been in SAC.”
I was stationed from 1977 till 1984 at MacDill AFB, Ca. One of my most interesting sorties was leading the IRT on the decon of the SR71 that flew into the trail of the Russian satellite that fell out of the sky in 1979. The other decon location was on a little island in the Pacific that also got involved. At that time, it was a sensitive area. I was also part of the traveling decon team that was involved with crash control and clean up, mapping and IRTs for discovery and collection for the west coast and Hawaii.
I was involved with TAC fighter training at MacDill and operations in Alaska for CAC ports. I would say that qualifies me as having a little experience with fighter aircraft and their pilots.
“Seriously, you are quoting this from a flight simultor??”
After the classroom, this is where the pilot is taught to react and decide in a practical application prior to stepping into a trainer and in between live sorties. Got a better tool?
“Your circular logic defeats your own argumebt criticizing the IP.”
Thank you. Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, “circle in proving”; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true.
And how can the investigation start from an unknown beginning without back tracing the event. They will start with a few things: visual of the downed aircraft, review radio transmissions, and sport out the transponder. Isn’t that starting from the back forward since the initial problem happens before the problem is recognized? And this is normal way it is accomplished. Seen too many of them. Glad I retired.
wy69
MacDill is in Florida. You're off by a whole continent.
I thought Mac Dill was in Florida also. Tampa to be exact. But what do I know.
It certainly is. If I was stationed somewhere for 7 years, I would certainly remember what state it was in.
“You’re off by a whole continent.”
Thank you for seeing that. I had eye surgery and I’m having a challenge with the computer keys and back checking my entries. Spent 1975 to 1977 in Tampa at Beale. 56 TFW and 4506 TAC fighter training sq. And a JCSE unit for com needs. My daughter was born there. I spent 1977 to 84 at Beale in Yuba City, CA. They had the 940th air refueling wing there and a the time also the SR-71 and T-38 chase plains along with the u2 and it’s cousin the TR. I got to ride in the el camino that caught the u2 and TR. That’s quite a thing to see. Thank you for the catch.
wy69
Sorry for mis-identifying my where abouts. I had eye surgery a couple of days ago and I’m still trying to get my vision clear so I make mistakes. The correct dates and locations involving me, and correct this time, are I was from 1975 to 1977 at MacDill AFB, Tampa with the 56th TFW and the 4506 Tac Fighter Training sq, I was at Beale from 1977 to 1984 in the house of the 940th Air Refueling Wing and a unit of both SR’s and U2/TR squadrons with T-38 support aircraft, 9th SRW.
Sorry for the misquote. I literally didn’t see it.
wy69
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